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Message for Phil Liu or any MS Staffers RRS feed

  • Question

  • Phil,

    I'm having serious aggravation with WGA  - Tosh & MS agree I have a genuine key but I still get errors.  MS Phone support is worse than useless, just advising a re-install.

    Wanting to write in to complain, I asked for the Customer Service Head in the UK. After a lot of hassle they told me "there was no-one", "we don't know" and, after 20 minutes of pleading gave me the name of "Steve Ballmer"...... you couldn't make it up.

     I can do without this WGA aggravation and poor support..

    So can any MS people on here please, please, give me the name and contact details for the Head of Customer Service in the UK so I can write in to complain?

    Thanks in advance

    Wednesday, May 31, 2006 1:59 PM

Answers

All replies

  • Bernie:

     

    What is your validation failure message? Can you please run this tool (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012 ) and paste its output in a reply?

     

    I'm sorry for the issues you faced earlier with the support line. I suggest filing an issue with our internal WGA support team to escalate at:

     

    http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?&c1=509&gprid=9860&

     

    -Phil Liu

    Wednesday, May 31, 2006 5:11 PM
  •  Phil Liu MSFT wrote:

    Bernie:

    What is your validation failure message? Can you please run this tool (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012 ) and paste its output in a reply?

    I'm sorry for the issues you faced earlier with the support line. I suggest filing an issue with our internal WGA support team to escalate at:

    http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?&c1=509&gprid=9860&

    -Phil Liu



    Phil,

    Please understand. I've been thru the tool route 2-3 times. I see no point in repeating the exercise as all agree my XP is genuine. The issue is the response I get from MS:

    a) Reinstall Windows or
    b) "Buy another licence key as it may be easier than re-installing" or
    c) Pay for tech time

    I do not want to escalate with any other "team" - and do not want to wait in a queue or speak to anyone further in MS at 15c per minute thank you very much. I want to complain to the Head of Customer Support in the UK about the quality (or lack of) in the support teams and the WGA software.

    This issue has cost my small business significant time and money (by my standards). MS Support refuses to give me the name of the Head of Customer Support. I do have to ask what it is that you and MS are trying to hide.

    I'm afraid if I cannot communicate sensibly with the support head honcho, the only avenue left to me will be a formal complaint to the consumer rights protection authorities here in the UK.

    Regards

    Bernie



    Thursday, June 1, 2006 10:17 AM
  • Bernie:

     

    I understand the situation you're in, but providing the diagnostics output will help me understand what the next steps are to take.

     

    We cannot post any personal contact information on the forum. Unfortunately, you *have* to go through a support request at this time to get escalated through to Customer Support management - I hope you understand our position and the privacy risks regarding this as well (Microsoft's privacy statement is here, http://privacy.microsoft.com).

    I hope this helps,

    -Phil Liu

     

    Thursday, June 1, 2006 6:52 PM
  •  Phil Liu MSFT wrote:

    Bernie:

    I understand the situation you're in, but providing the diagnostics output will help me understand what the next steps are to take.

    We cannot post any personal contact information on the forum. Unfortunately, you *have* to go through a support request at this time to get escalated through to Customer Support management - I hope you understand our position and the privacy risks regarding this as well (Microsoft's privacy statement is here, http://privacy.microsoft.com).

    I hope this helps,

    -Phil Liu



    OK *GROAN*,  one more time (5th I think!)

    WGA Diagnostic Data (1.5.0530.2):

    --------------------

    Genuine Validation Status: Genuine

    Windows Product Key: *****-*****-T6DFB-Y934T-YD4YT

    Windows Product Key Hash: 3g4CZGFEDgbKmn/oB4pa2FZsssU=

    Windows Product ID: 55274-OEM-2211906-00102

    Windows Product ID Type: 2

    Windows License Type: OEM SLP

    Windows OS version: 5.1.2600.2.00010100.2.0.pro

    Download Center code: Retrieving code...

    ID: 634a028d-ee39-4abc-9cd4-edba131d436b

    Is Admin: Yes

    AutoDial: Yes

    Registry: 0x0

    WGA Version: Registered, 1.5.532.0.

    Signature Type: Microsoft.

    Validation Diagnostic:

     

    Scan: Complete

    Cryptography: Complete

     

    Proxy settings: N/A

    User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Win32)

    Default Browser: C:\PROGRA~1\MOZILL~1\FIREFOX.exe

    Download signed ActiveX controls: Allowed

    Download unsigned ActiveX controls: Disabled

    Run ActiveX controls and plug-ins: Allowed

    Initialize and script ActiveX controls not marked as safe: Disabled

    Allow scripting of Internet Explorer Webbrowser control: Disabled

    Active scripting: Allowed

    Script ActiveX controls marked as safe for scripting: Allowed


    Friday, June 2, 2006 12:55 PM
  • Bernie, If you could, please provide the output of the tool in its entirety. It contains settings that I use to diagnose what may be happening.

     

    Looking at the information, yes, you should be genuine (not denying it). I totally agree with you! Can you give me a description of the error you're coming up with, and where it occurs?

     

    -Phil Liu

    Friday, June 2, 2006 5:21 PM
  •  Phil Liu MSFT wrote:

    Bernie, If you could, please provide the output of the tool in its entirety. It contains settings that I use to diagnose what may be happening.

    Looking at the information, yes, you should be genuine (not denying it). I totally agree with you! Can you give me a description of the error you're coming up with, and where it occurs?

    -Phil Liu



    Phil,

    I mentioned my problems to the CIO of the client I'm working for (major EU insurer). Apart from his sheer disbelief  at the hoops I've had to go thru, he got one of his techies to sort things out for me. It's all OK now - I think they swapped keys and then swapped back again. BTW, he's sending the bill for his techies time to his MS rep.....

    I have to say that the MS service I've recieved on this has been nothing short of pathetic. Not impressed at all.

    Bernie
    Friday, June 2, 2006 10:02 PM
  •  Phil Liu MSFT wrote:

    Bernie, If you could, please provide the output of the tool in its entirety. It contains settings that I use to diagnose what may be happening.

    Looking at the information, yes, you should be genuine (not denying it). I totally agree with you! Can you give me a description of the error you're coming up with, and where it occurs?

    -Phil Liu



    Phil,

    Been reading the forum and some comments about the WGA download - is the WGA software Beta..!!!?

    Bernie
    Friday, June 2, 2006 10:24 PM
  • Bernie,

    As I recall the EULA says it is "pre-release" software, aka Beta.  But since they have modded it a lot recently, it might have "graduated."  So I suppose you have to look and see on the one installed on your computer.

    Friday, June 2, 2006 10:32 PM
  •  Dan at IT Associates wrote:

    Bernie,

    As I recall the EULA says it is "pre-release" software, aka Beta.



    I had to read this twice. MS is using beta software to validate installations?

    If that is is the case it's unbelievable!  Surely they wouldn't be so stupid or incompetent to do that?

    Friday, June 2, 2006 10:43 PM
  • Bernie,

    Well, it could be a case of, the only thing more stupid that to publish beta software is to install it.

    Friday, June 2, 2006 10:46 PM
  •  Phil Liu MSFT wrote:

    Bernie:

    What is your validation failure message? Can you please run this tool (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012 ) and paste its output in a reply?

    I'm sorry for the issues you faced earlier with the support line. I suggest filing an issue with our internal WGA support team to escalate at:

    http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?&c1=509&gprid=9860&

    -Phil Liu



    I've been in this same situation for three days, now.  I know the version I have is genuine (bought it at COSTCO or Best Buy and paid full price for a full version of WinXP Pro).

    I've done the diagnostics, sent info to support, have a case number and now I wait for an answer.

    My biggest problem is that I cannot find the WinXP Pro disk.  It may have been accidently tossed when I updated my system board (it was in the box from the old one).  But I should not have to pay for that mistake .. nor this new MS campaign to punish users.

    Fortunately, I'm happy running Linux or OS X.  Since I am really not interested in paying for another copy of WinXP Pro for this machine, it may have to become a Linux box (mostly used as a server anyway) and I will do *necessary* Win things on my WinXP Pro laptop (it came with OS installed) and my Mac laptop running OS X.

    It is really unfortunate that Microsoft as chosen to create this problem for legitimate customers.  Given all the money I've spent on MS software over the years starting with MS-DOS, this treatment is really a sorry show on MS' part.

    Phil
    Sunday, June 4, 2006 3:20 PM
  •  Dan at IT Associates wrote:

    Bernie,

    Well, it could be a case of, the only thing more stupid that to publish beta software is to install it.



    Dan,

    You need to realise that not everyone in the non-IT world who uses XP knows or cares what "beta" or pre-release software is. Most people see "Microsoft" and install it - after all MS keeps telling us about the benefits of "Genuine MS software" and pushes the need to update their XP automatically.

    As I said on another thread, the way the WGA roll-out has been managed seems appallingly incompetent and has caused a lot of frustration and resentment from - it isn't a game.

    Bernie


    Monday, June 5, 2006 9:17 AM
  • why am i having trobles with this windows stuff when i bought it windows xp was on my conputer now all i get is valadate stuff i bought a conputer off a friend,no windows xp disc was with it.only a copy i cant afford a cd rom of windows xp idont have a checking account only savings i dont have a credit card,,,what should i do
    Monday, June 5, 2006 11:49 AM
  • KayLady,

    Please start here:

    Step 1 is to download and run the utility at this link http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012, then click Validation, Copy to Clipboard, then paste the report into a response message in this thread.

    Step 2 is to look on the computer to see if you have a Certificate of Authenticty (COA).  If you have one, tell us about the COA.  Tell us:

    1.  What edition of Windows XP is it for, Home, Pro, or Media Center?

    2.  Does it read "OEM Software" or "OEM Product" in black lettering?

    3.  Or, does it have the computer manufacturer's name in black lettering?

    4.  DO NOT post the Product Key.

    Not sure what to look for?  Click here:  http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/en/coa.mspx

    Monday, June 5, 2006 2:07 PM
  •  Bernie220578 wrote:
     Dan at IT Associates wrote:

    Bernie,

    Well, it could be a case of, the only thing more stupid that to publish beta software is to install it.



    Dan,

    You need to realise that not everyone in the non-IT world who uses XP knows or cares what "beta" or pre-release software is. Most people see "Microsoft" and install it - after all MS keeps telling us about the benefits of "Genuine MS software" and pushes the need to update their XP automatically.

    As I said on another thread, the way the WGA roll-out has been managed seems appallingly incompetent and has caused a lot of frustration and resentment from - it isn't a game.

    Bernie


    Bernie,

    Since you seem to be concerned with management metrics, why not repost to Sandy Weil who is the manager of this program, ans ask for some metrics.  Ask him about what the percentage of people who have installed the WGA Notifications Tools are having problems, which would be indicated in MS tech support contacts thru all avenues:  their email support system, phone support system, forums such as this one, and most importantly I would think, input from their major computer manufacturing partners (Dell, IBM, Toshiba, Acer, etc).

    I would be mildly interested in knowing how how that's working out.

    Monday, June 5, 2006 2:12 PM
  •  Dan at IT Associates wrote:



    Bernie,

    Since you seem to be concerned with management metrics, why not repost to Sandy Weil who is the manager of this program, ans ask for some metrics. Ask him about what the percentage of people who have installed the WGA Notifications Tools are having problems, which would be indicated in MS tech support contacts thru all avenues: their email support system, phone support system, forums such as this one, and most importantly I would think, input from their major computer manufacturing partners (Dell, IBM, Toshiba, Acer, etc).

    I would be mildly interested in knowing how how that's working out.



    Dan,

    (I know this is OT, but....)

    That's what my business does - improving business process and customer service performance. If MS want me to do that, I'd be happy to.  Normally we don't do work for free....but as a starter

    First, the sampling strategy you suggest would be seriously flawed as it would simply give the number of reported problems, not the number of actual problems

    WGA is downloading some software and installing on a PC and/or checking data and making a transaction. This is similar to a a software download on a Digital TV reciever and/or a cash withdrawal from an ATM.  Evidence shows these types of software interaction run at better than 99.999%  ("5x9") success rate or a failure rate of less than 1 in 100,000. (based on UK data). As an aside, Telco's are now running software systems with a failure rate of less than  1 in 2 million.

    So if  there are, say, 50 million  XP installations in the US, then any more than 500 occassions (not reported problems) where false positives were indicated, WGA didn't work or re-validation was needed, then that would indicate below-industry standard system performance in the US.  Or fom a UK context (assume 10 million XP installations), more than 100 occassions.

    If we assume 1 occassion in 5 results in a support call etc, then any more than 50 WGA calls to MS, Dell, Acer etc where false positives were indicated, WGA didn't work or re-validation was needed, could indicate a below industry-standard performance.

    Hope that helps/is interesting.

    Bernie






    Monday, June 5, 2006 3:33 PM
  •  Bernie220578 wrote:
     Dan at IT Associates wrote:



    Bernie,

    Since you seem to be concerned with management metrics, why not repost to Sandy Weil who is the manager of this program, ans ask for some metrics. Ask him about what the percentage of people who have installed the WGA Notifications Tools are having problems, which would be indicated in MS tech support contacts thru all avenues: their email support system, phone support system, forums such as this one, and most importantly I would think, input from their major computer manufacturing partners (Dell, IBM, Toshiba, Acer, etc).

    I would be mildly interested in knowing how how that's working out.



    Dan,

    (I know this is OT, but....)

    That's what my business does - improving business process and customer service performance. If MS want me to do that, I'd be happy to.  Normally we don't do work for free....but as a starter

    First, the sampling strategy you suggest would be seriously flawed as it would simply give the number of reported problems, not the number of actual problems

    I am not advocating a sampling strategy at all.  The actual number of problems can never be a metric, only a guess; but the number of reported problems is a metric since it is reality and not a guess.  Sampling would be the process of taking a reported number and attempting to divine some interpretation of reality from it, which I would consider less useful than the reported number.  Since your focus is customer service, I would argue from a customer service point of view that unreported problems are irrelevant because this unknown number of customers have not presented themselves to be "serviced," therefore for these purposes, they do not exist.  It is much more imporant, IMO, how you deal with the customers who have presented themselves for service, so these are the people I would be interested in.

    IMO MS's execution of the WGA Notifications program could have been better from a CS point of view: (1) The information presented to the person with possible counterfeit software looks too much like MS is trying to extort money, and that instills an attitude in people that predisposes them to angry rants and makes it harder for a CS person to help them.   (2) I would have prefered that they use the term "unauthorized installation" rather than "counterfeit."  (3) Very little information is made available in the FAQ for the majority of XP installations, specifically installations done by the "royalty OEMs" ie the Dells, IBMs, and Sonys of the world.  For almost all of these customers, seeing the software counterfeiting warning does NOT mean they will have to spend a dime, because their computers came with legitimate software from the factory.

     Bernie220578 wrote:

    WGA is downloading some software and installing on a PC and/or checking data and making a transaction. This is similar to a a software download on a Digital TV reciever and/or a cash withdrawal from an ATM.  Evidence shows these types of software interaction run at better than 99.999%  ("5x9") success rate or a failure rate of less than 1 in 100,000. (based on UK data). As an aside, Telco's are now running software systems with a failure rate of less than  1 in 2 million.

    So if  there are, say, 50 million  XP installations in the US, then any more than 500 occassions (not reported problems) where false positives were indicated, WGA didn't work or re-validation was needed, then that would indicate below-industry standard system performance in the US.  Or fom a UK context (assume 10 million XP installations), more than 100 occassions.

    This is an interesting straw man that you are setting up.  I have no reason or evidence to dipute your claims about the reliability of digital TV, ATM, or telco transactions.  I have every reason to doubt whether the exact actions of WGA are remotely similar to what happens in those other transactions.  Neither you nor I are privvy to what each line of code does in the WGA, so let's both admit we don't have any expertise there and drop the comparison.  No to mention that the transactions you are referencing as a model are very small structured exchanges of textual information taking place within a secured, single-purpose firmware based operating system that is not routinely subjected to disruptions from the installation of cracked code, malware attacks, and user ineptitude.

     Bernie220578 wrote:

    If we assume 1 occassion in 5 results in a support call etc, then any more than 50 WGA calls to MS, Dell, Acer etc where false positives were indicated, WGA didn't work or re-validation was needed, could indicate a below industry-standard performance.

    Hope that helps/is interesting.

    Bernie

    I did find it interesting and informative.

    Monday, June 5, 2006 4:43 PM