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Vail and Windows Live Sync RRS feed

  • Question

  • I'm sure we have talked about this to death... unfortunately, I can't find the posts.  I tried searching "sync" and "Live sync", etc.  Even tried google... if you know of an area, please provide a direct link and I'll find the answer there. (I'm a big believer in searching first!)

    My question, I know that Live Sync 4 will be compatible with Vail.  I wanted to know if anyone is using the current live sync with Vail?  How is it working out?  I've been using it for a couple of days on a test machine (with radom test data) and it seems to be working fine. 

    I understand all of this stuff is beta... I'm fine with that.  I'm looking to see if anyone else has worked with this or had issues I might not be aware. 

    Thanks.

     

    Monday, June 21, 2010 3:25 AM

Answers

  • I would be cautious about the use of sync technologies like Live Sync with Vail at this time. While Vail seems pretty robust, and I haven't had any data corruption issues, the use of Vail as a production server isn't supported or advised.

    I still use V1 as my primary storage, and use robocopy to sync changes up to Vail, without syncing them back to V1 (except for one share, which I sync the other way).


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    • Marked as answer by Mat93e Monday, June 21, 2010 3:53 AM
    Monday, June 21, 2010 3:43 AM
    Moderator

All replies

  • I would be cautious about the use of sync technologies like Live Sync with Vail at this time. While Vail seems pretty robust, and I haven't had any data corruption issues, the use of Vail as a production server isn't supported or advised.

    I still use V1 as my primary storage, and use robocopy to sync changes up to Vail, without syncing them back to V1 (except for one share, which I sync the other way).


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    • Marked as answer by Mat93e Monday, June 21, 2010 3:53 AM
    Monday, June 21, 2010 3:43 AM
    Moderator
  •          Hey Ken... I remember when I had more answers than you (back in version 1 - don't remember my screen name though)... glad you stuck around and kept the passion, v1 is boring since it "just works".  LOL

    I know it is not supported... but heck, I went through the entire corruption issues with v1 even though it was suppose to be okay.  lol

    I'm looking at using this or sticking with v1 and maybe buying an external drive (hooked to my desktop or htpc) to sync large files.  I might even look into  a nas, but I'm sure that won't work with live sync. 

    Love live sync... works great with my multiple desktops and multiple laptops.... been using over a year with no issues (Yes, I keep regular backups of my data lol).

    Thanks, Ken...

    Doubt if anyone else will come with a better answer, so I'll mark as answered.  If anyone else wants to chime in, be my guess.

    I Love the Dog Food... ;-)

     

    Monday, June 21, 2010 3:52 AM
  • Hi!

    What benefits are there from using Live Sync? How is it different from Live Mesh (currently in beta).

    Just curious :)

     

    /henrik


    Henrik
    Monday, June 21, 2010 8:19 AM
  • What benefits are there from using Live Sync? How is it different from Live Mesh (currently in beta).

    This blog post details the similarities, overlapping features, and differences:

    http://www.labnol.org/internet/compare-windows-live-sync-mesh-and-skydrive/6166/


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Monday, June 21, 2010 12:35 PM
    Moderator
  • What benefits are there from using Live Sync? How is it different from Live Mesh (currently in beta).

    This blog post details the similarities, overlapping features, and differences:

    http://www.labnol.org/internet/compare-windows-live-sync-mesh-and-skydrive/6166/


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)


    Many thanks for your effort! Interesting reading.

    /Henrik


    Henrik
    Monday, June 21, 2010 1:49 PM
  • I didn't write the blog post. I just provided you with the #2 Bing search result for "Live Sync". The #1 result is, of course, the Wikipedia entry for Live Sync.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Monday, June 21, 2010 10:47 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi!

    What benefits are there from using Live Sync? How is it different from Live Mesh (currently in beta).

    Just curious :)

     

    /henrik


    Henrik


    Actually, Live Sync is and Live Mesh are combining to form Windows Live Sync.  This is happening (hopefully) this month, or that is the current rumor from a 13-year-old... :-)

    http://www.windowslivepreview.com/essentials/sync/

    In other words, sync and Windows Home Server are on a collision course... Great stuff.  I came here because I did not know if others were using it already and if they were having issues.  I've loaded it and it works great so far. 

    Being able to sync files that are up to 40 gb in size, 200 folders, with each folder able to hold up to 100,000 files. 

    Yes, it is going to be great.  Really, I don't have all my files on my home computer... I have some on the home server that I don't have on my main computer because the backup would be huge.  My laptop, I want some of those folders/files. 

    The major benefit of sync is those of us with multiple desktops and laptops... I have several devices I use sync to keep in sync. Having access to home server would be great.
    Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:21 AM
  • Hi!

     

    Ken: Thanks for finding the article. I didnt find that one when googling. Maybe I should try bing next time :) Or use better keywords.

     

    Mat93e: Sometimes, MS are producing more than they should, instead of creating one product that fit in the big scheme of things. Instead they produce many smaller apps that don't really fit together, or it is unclear when to use what, the customers become confused. I have usually had a very clear mind about what I want, but during the past months, I have said to myself " Where the f-ck does MS want me to store my music/pics." Granted, not all users have a WHS, so for them skydrive is the logical choice for centralized storage. And for low end users that don't have a Windows Mobile, no WHS, no high speed internet connection, the laptop or home computer is the only choice.

    Here is where MS becomes cloudy... maybe because they offer too many choices without really explaining who should use it. I wonder how long they can afford producing a  vast number of different products for different market segments. Making a comparison to Apple is very interesting... they spend effort in producing very few products, but the ones they produce fulfil the requirements for a vast majority of users. Maybe at the cost of flexibility for the 5% of the users that dont have their requirements fulfilled.

    I see the same issue with Media Center (which I have loved and used since 2005). They created a great product with extreme potential. But they don't really care about it. Like putting a baby into the world, and then don't care about raising it and feeding it. Same question, who is it for? The setup and configuration is far too complicated for the average homeowner, some vital features are missing, bug fixes take forever, limited oem interest, extender market is dead apart from the xbox, extras features from 3rd parties market is dead etc etc. Market a media center box like an xbox... lots more people would purchase it. Just look at the boom in the media when google mentioned google tv. Everyone wonder what is it for, when will it come, how can we use it etc etc. I only read about W7MC in computer geek magazines...

    If MS have taken some time to market their ideas instead of burying it for people to find. I am starting to see the same issues with WHS, now when people get more bandwidth at home, cloud services become more and more  common, etc etc. Why do people want a server at their homes, when many companies move their server parks out of their homes and into the cloud? Don't misunderstand me here, I like to have a WHS at my home to have full control of hardware and software, but not at the cost of developing other servceis that do almost the same thing.

    its late and time for sleep... just wanted to write off some steam ;)

    take care/H


    Henrik
    Tuesday, June 22, 2010 9:08 AM
  • Hi!

     

    Ken: Thanks for finding the article. I didnt find that one when googling. Maybe I should try bing next time :) Or use better keywords.

     

    Mat93e: Sometimes, MS are producing more than they should, instead of creating one product that fit in the big scheme of things. Instead they produce many smaller apps that don't really fit together, or it is unclear when to use what, the customers become confused. I have usually had a very clear mind about what I want, but during the past months, I have said to myself " Where the f-ck does MS want me to store my music/pics." Granted, not all users have a WHS, so for them skydrive is the logical choice for centralized storage. And for low end users that don't have a Windows Mobile, no WHS, no high speed internet connection, the laptop or home computer is the only choice.

    Here is where MS becomes cloudy... maybe because they offer too many choices without really explaining who should use it. I wonder how long they can afford producing a  vast number of different products for different market segments. Making a comparison to Apple is very interesting... they spend effort in producing very few products, but the ones they produce fulfil the requirements for a vast majority of users. Maybe at the cost of flexibility for the 5% of the users that dont have their requirements fulfilled.

    I see the same issue with Media Center (which I have loved and used since 2005). They created a great product with extreme potential. But they don't really care about it. Like putting a baby into the world, and then don't care about raising it and feeding it. Same question, who is it for? The setup and configuration is far too complicated for the average homeowner, some vital features are missing, bug fixes take forever, limited oem interest, extender market is dead apart from the xbox, extras features from 3rd parties market is dead etc etc. Market a media center box like an xbox... lots more people would purchase it. Just look at the boom in the media when google mentioned google tv. Everyone wonder what is it for, when will it come, how can we use it etc etc. I only read about W7MC in computer geek magazines...

    If MS have taken some time to market their ideas instead of burying it for people to find. I am starting to see the same issues with WHS, now when people get more bandwidth at home, cloud services become more and more  common, etc etc. Why do people want a server at their homes, when many companies move their server parks out of their homes and into the cloud? Don't misunderstand me here, I like to have a WHS at my home to have full control of hardware and software, but not at the cost of developing other servceis that do almost the same thing.

    its late and time for sleep... just wanted to write off some steam ;)

    take care/H


    Henrik

    Your post was a bit baffling... let me post my thoughts on your concerns/questions. 

    Speaking of live (guess Mesh and sync, specifically), I can say that people were confused.  I was not.  I knew that sync was foldershare, a proven product.  Mesh was new, and thus had a "beta" tag.  MS had to test mesh in the public in order to get it stable and attempt to bring foldershare technology together with Mesh.   Skydrive?  Another holder for the real product to be released. 

    Where in the f does MS want you to store your pics?  How about where in the f do YOU want to store your pics!  Having a choice is always good... I don't understand the argument, "I have too many choices." 

    Person 1: You can only do one of ten.

    Person 2: I want more choices.  You are controlling.

    Person 1: Okay, I'm sorry, you can do one of ten or all of ten.

    Person 2:  I'm confused, too many choices. 

    In other words, person 1 can't win...

    Media center?  Not sure why that is here, but I have an htpc... it fits a certain group of us... one product can't fit all right now.  Google wants the little box thing (google tv) but I don't want that... I want a small pc that I store info and do other things.  I also have a blu ray player (sony) and a blu ray player on my htpc... I like choice.  I do what the f I want to do. 

    If people don't know about media center, they need to get off their fat butts and look for it... It is right there.  You seem to have a bit more tech knowledge that most, but think about if someone with less would be able to or even WANT to hook up an htpc... many of my friends don't.  And they do know about it. 

    Far as a home server in the home vs. online services... I will applaud the day that an online service will allow me to backup my (almost) 140 gb hd (maybe 70 or 80 compressed) to the cloud and the almost 1 tb of info I have on my server (not counting backups or files duplicated on another pc) for less than a cheap 64-bit pc and Windows Home Server license.  Of course, your needs, person's 1's needs, person 2's needs will be different.  Some people will have 10 tb (like I read earlier). 

    I understand, some people don't need a whs... you might be one of those people.  If you can load all your info to amazon s3 for cheaper (or maybe a bit more but easier), why in the heck do you want a whs? 

    IMO, MS is giving us choice... I'm actually mad MS is taking windows mobile 7 to the same business model as iphone...  less choice (from what I can see now).  Choice is always good... of course, MS changing all of this does not work for some people... change sucks, for some... for me it worked out this time. 

     

    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:09 AM
  • The issue with mesh is that transfer speeds are much slower when compared to synch when doing pure synching (no cloud storage). Live synch (foldershare) is a really good software. It utilise all free bandwidth you have, but somehow manage to take less priority from other applications so you do not notice it while doing normal internet activity. 

    Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:37 PM
  • Frankly Mat, you can nitpick with the details of Henrik's post, but his basic observation is spot on.  

    MS has lots of talented teams.  They're working on lots of cool technology.  They even have a great overall strategy (if you buy Ballmer's visions for "3 screens" and "S+S").  But for various cultural reasons, cross-group collaboration is WAY WAY too hard.  You can see clear evidence of corporate politics (i.e. which products belong to which GM/CVP's fiefdom, etc...) all over the place.  The end result is pieces that never quite fit together the way they should.

    In the case of Live Sync, it doesn't take deep analysis to see how the FolderShare + Mesh merger was frustratingly mismanaged.  But I'm going to elaborate anyway, in the hopes it will quell talk of a WHS + MCE merger once and for all.  It will never happen.  

    WHS belongs to Bill Laing.  It's part of the Servers division run by Amitabh Srivastava and ultimately Bob Muglia.  By and large, STB is a well run division: innovative products, good (if imperfect) execution, terrific growth trends on the business side.  Most of their revenue comes from stodgy enterprises, and the culture reflects that -- though their SMB products & marketing are also pretty successful.

    MCE has bounced around between groups, none of which has strong ties to BobMu's branch of the firm.  During its first several years, it was part of the "eHome" initiative run by Joe Belfiore (under Rick Thompson's org, part of the Windows division).  Senior execs tended to overpromise on its behalf (*cough* BillG, Allchin), but fact is they innovated on a consistent 1yr cycle for every release between Freestyle and Diamond -- pretty darn impressive, especially within the constraints of the Windows org.  Then it got moved to E&D.  You'd think decoupling themselves from the giant org that had just undergone a 5-year Longhorn debacle would grant them even more flexibility.  Yet the first release after the reorg (Fiji) took twice as long and had half as many features as planned.  Evidently its execs were focused on trendy visions like "Zune VideoX" that never saw the light of day, while largely ignoring established products like MCE that actually knew how to ship.  Now there's another major reorg underway, as you've probably heard, in the wake of Robbie & J's departures.  I don't know who's running eHome at the moment.  Impossible to say what its fate will be...but it's a pretty safe bet that MCE fans won't like it.  It certainly doesn't bode well for everyone's fantasies about a joint WHS + MCE (which is to say, STB + E&D) project.  Collaboration across such a huge gap requires stability and trust, which are in kinda short supply right now.

    Ok, rant over.  Can we please put the topic to rest now?

    Saturday, July 24, 2010 4:09 PM