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WLOC coexiting with Norton Ghost 12 RRS feed

  • Question

  • I have just done a complete Windows XP reinstall (to clean up registry and other issues).  I'm purchased WLOC as part of the system overhaul for antivirus and other things, and in general, am happy with it.

    But I also use Norton Ghost 12.0 to perform a full backup my hard drive every night (been doing this for years since Ghost 9, and it has saved me a lot of frustration many times over).

    WLOC is red (at risk) and is giving me grief about Norton Live Update (NLU).  I don't want to uninstall NLU) because I want to keep Ghost 12 up to date.  I understand that NAV (Norton Antivirus) and WLOC could cause my system grief, but this feels like WLOC just being testy about NLU because it assumes anything from Norton is problematic.

    However, WLOC and Ghost/NLU seem to be co-existing fine, as I've run now for a few days without any problems.

    So here are my questions:
    1) Is having Ghost and NLU *really* a problem with WLOC?  I.e., is my system an accident waiting to happen? Everything seems to be running fine, including NLU being able to search for updates (other posts in this forum address NAV AND WLOC coexisting, but as mentioned, that's not my configuration, and I don't seem to have a WLOC firewall problem with NLU).
    2) Assuming they can coexist peacefully, is there any way to tell WLOC that NLU isn't really a problem, and have it go green again?  It's kind of frustrating that it's always red, and it takes away the utility of the taskbar icon.

    Thanks in advance!
    Monday, November 26, 2007 4:05 AM

Answers

  • I think that OneCare *may* be reading LiveUpdate as part of the security package incorrectly and sees it as a conflict. If you disable LiveUpdate, you can still check for updates and update Ghost manually until something is done on the OneCare side to resolve this.

    I am only speculating on the cause of OneCare seeing this as a conflict. You can contact support to see if there is any official word on this. 

    How to reach support - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2421771&SiteID=2

     

    -steve

     

    Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:08 AM
    Moderator

All replies

  • I think that OneCare *may* be reading LiveUpdate as part of the security package incorrectly and sees it as a conflict. If you disable LiveUpdate, you can still check for updates and update Ghost manually until something is done on the OneCare side to resolve this.

    I am only speculating on the cause of OneCare seeing this as a conflict. You can contact support to see if there is any official word on this. 

    How to reach support - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2421771&SiteID=2

     

    -steve

     

    Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:08 AM
    Moderator
  • Hy!

     

    The solution to the problem is upgrading Symantec LiveUpdate to the newest version, at least version 3.4. A german guy wrote about the problem in his blog: http://newyear2006.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/live-onecare-20-und-norton-bzw-symantec-live-update-problem.

     

    You can get the the 3.4 version of Liveupdate under: ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/liveupdate/3.4/

     

    To me it seems Microsoft only tested it against the latest versions of LiveUpdate.

     

    Hope it helps.

    Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:08 PM
  • As with any software, especially security software, you should always have the latest version available installed. It's likely that no testing was performed on older versions for exactly that and other reasons such as the following:

     

    Symantec Windows LiveUpdate potential for minor Denial of Service and Directory Traversal

     

    Unlike OneCare, which alerts you to the fact that updates are available and haven't been performed, much of the older software from other vendors never made you aware of this issue. Though OneCare should work to make this clear, it's quite common for people to never update such old programs and assume they have no issue when in fact these are becoming some of the most common entry points for malware of late.

     

    This is an area I'd like to see OneCare spend some development time on, including scanning for and informing the user of out of date software that might put them in danger of exploit due to vulnerabilities that have been discovered. Many of these vulnerabilities are nearly as dangerous to system security as those discovered in the operating system itself.

     

    OneCareBear

    Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:18 PM
    Moderator
  • In response to Mike, FWIW, I downloaded and installed Norton LiveUpdate 3.4.  Note that that version was posted after I first reported the problem on this forum.

    However, using 3.4 did not solve the problem.  I still get the WLOC alert and it askes me to uninstall Norton Live Update (which I did again).

    As for OneCareBear's post, I agree that we should keep software on our systems up to date (at least service releases - sometime I can't affort the latest and greatest version of every piece of software on my system and I "limp" along until budget or necessity dictates an upgrade).  Norton Ghost 12 was a recent upgrade purchase from Ghost 9 for me, and it's their latest release of that product.

    But my frustration and report on this forum is exactly what you're talking about in your post. I want to keep Ghost up to date, and Norton provides a method to do this (through their Norton Live Update), but apparently Windows Live OneCare is not smart enough to discriminate between Norton Live Update's ability to work with Ghost, NAV, or any other Norton product.  I can understand WLOC giving a warning with NAV, but it shouldn't care about Ghost.  So in this case, I think the WLOC team should work to correct this deficiency.

    My $0.02 worth.

    Thanks!
    Wednesday, December 12, 2007 4:01 AM
  • I agree that simply having LiveUpdate installed should not be a problem for OneCare and I hope that this is fixed soon. Mike posted to another thread that the way he resolved this was not by simply uninstalling the older LiveUpdate and installing the newer one, but to let OneCare do the uninstall. Once OneCare was "happy" that it was gone, he installed the latest LiveUpdate and OneCare hasn't complained.

    -steve

     

    Thursday, December 13, 2007 2:05 AM
    Moderator
  • I can't recall how I removed the previous version of LiveUpdate, but I know yesterday that I uninstalled it from WLOC.  So I just reinstalled, and WLOC stayed green, but on reboot it came up red again.

    An interesting bug, feature, whatever you want to call it, is this time I couldn't uninstall LiveUpdate from the WLOC uninstall window.  Clicking on the uninstall button gave me an hourglass for a few seconds, and then nothing happened.  Tried it three times and gave up, but then uninstalled from the control panel and it uninstalled fine.
    Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:28 AM
  • This morning I again tried to resolve this problem.  Unlike my previous attempts (removing live update via the control panel) I allowed WLOC to perform the removal.  Afterward, I had a green WLOC.  I then installed live update 3.4 as suggested (even though I see no official symantec release of this version of live update).

     

    Upon the new live update installation, my WLOC task bar indicated green status (hooray!) for about 2 hours then went red again and indicated that Norton Live Update.

     

    So, I'm at a loss and operating in the red.

     

    Any updates or further assistance would be greatly appreciated.  What do you say WLOC team?  How about a little fix for us?

    Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:00 PM
  • Tuesday, January 15, 2008

    I purchased a copy of Windows Live OneCare version 1.0 and installed it on my home computers
    in 2007. Microsoft’s instructions asked me to remove Norton Antivirus, a competing security
    product, and I did. My subscription to OneCare runs out February 23, 2008 and for most of the
    year Microsoft co-existed with my remaining Norton SystemWorks Premier applications without
    complaint.

    Then in mid January 2008 my copy of Windows Live One Care 1.0 updated itself to version 2.0,
    without warning me I would have to uninstall existing software, and told me I have to uninstall
    Norton Liveupdate and my Norton Applications (SystemWorks 2006 Premiere).

    I do not believe this is fair or right from my standpoint or Symantec’s. As a consumer I lose the
    services provided by SystemWorks that are not included in Windows Live OneCare or that are
    superior to Microsoft’s product: 1) (Ghost) The ability to backup my entire hard drive to an image
    file. 2) (Speedup) A full featured disk defragmentation program 3) (Disk Doctor) 4) (WinDoctor)
    registry cleaning 5) (WipeInfo) For permanently deleting files 6) (Cleanup) for removing internet
    clutter and temporary files 7) System Optimizer 8) Process Viewer 9) Performance Test
    Benchmark 10) CheckIt Diagnostics

    Shouldn’t Symantec bring a monopoly action suit against Microsoft? Should Microsoft be allowed
    to make changes to their product that break the functionality of a competitor’s product? Yes, I
    opted for Windows Live OneCare anti-virus and anti-spyware because of their cheap intro price
    and removed the antivirus application from my installation of SystemWorks 2006 Suite. But why
    shouldn’t I be able to use the other services provided by SystemWorks that are superior to or
    missing from Microsoft’s Windows Live OneCare product?

    The only Symantec product on my wife’s new Vista laptop is the latest version of Norton Ghost
    and Windows Live OneCare is asking me to uninstall Norton LiveUpdate from it as well.

    I have an older machine with SystemWorks 2004 on it but apparently Windows Live OneCare has
    no problems with that version?

    Please see screen shots below:

    After Windows Live OneCare completed its update to version 2.0 the following message is
    located at the top of the screen:

    Urgent
    Remove interfering programs
    Some programs on this PC may interfere with OneCare. To avoid performance problems on this
    PC, you should remove those programs. There is a view list button adjacent the preceding
    message and when you click it another dialog box displays. See next screen capture below:

    Windows Live OneCare has detected the following applications have been installed

    OneCare is maintaining your PC making the following programs unnecessary. Keeping these
    programs installed may affect the operation of OneCare and cause severe performance problems
    for your computer.

    Norton Live Update

    Buttons offer options for “Uninstall Now” and “Cancel”

    If you click ‘Uninstall Now’ the following dialog box displays:

    We have determined that you still have some Symantec applications registered with LiveUpdate.
    You should not remove LiveUpdate unless all Symantec applications have been uninstalled first.

    Are you sure you want to remove LiveUpdate?

    Yes and No option buttons are offered.

    At the bottom of the dialog box is a hyperlink: “Why should I uninstall these applications?”

    If you click the above hyperlink A Windows Live OneCare web page opens with the following
    instruction:

    Welcome! I'm Instant Help, an automated service agent available 24/7 to answer questions about
    Windows Live OneCare.

    Type your question in the space below and click Ask or for a list of topics I can help you with type
    Main Menu.

    I typed the question below and received an inane response:

    You: Why should I uninstall Norton SystemWorks 2006?

    Help: I'm sorry; I'm not sure what you mean. Please type ? to see how I can help you or topics for
    a complete list of help topics.

    I uninstalled Norton LiveUpdate and left the other Norton Applications installed. This satisfied
    Microsoft’s nagging warning. I live in hope Norton does not discover any “critical” problems that
    will expose my systems to malware as I can no longer update my Symantec products.

    Friday, February 01, 2008

    Again on February 1, 2008 I started my personal computers and a dialog box informed me
    Windows Live OneCare is updating so please do not turn off your computer. After the update,
    Windows Live OneCare icon turned red in ‘warning’.

    Opening the Windows Live OneCare interface displayed an urgent message: “Urgent – Remove
    interfering programs. Some programs on this PC may interfere with OneCare. To avoid
    performance problems on this PC, you should remove those programs.”

    The urgent message included an action button: “View list”. Clicking the “View list” button displays
    a dialog box:

     “Windows Live OneCare has detected the following applications have been installed.

     One Care is maintaining your PC making the following programs unnecessary. Keeping
    these programs installed may affect the operation of OneCare and cause severe
    performance problems for your computer.

     An “Uninstall Now” button appears adjacent Ad-Aware 2007 and Norton SystemWorks
    Premier on my Windows XP desktop computer.

     A hyperlink at the bottom of the dialog box: “Why should I uninstall these applications?”
    links to a web page that is “again” not helpful.

    As a consumer I am tired of software companies fighting over my desktop! Microsoft does not
    offer a stand alone disk imaging program like Norton Ghost. The end user should not have to
    choose between Windows Live OneCare and Norton. Competition is good and the consumer
    should be able to choose products from multiple vendors.

    Live OneCare offers disk defragmentation as does Norton Speed Disk included with Norton
    SystemWorks. Since both applications can be set to run manually or scheduled at different times
    why should the consumer have to choose one or the other? I prefer Norton’s defrag.

    Live OneCare cleans and repairs Windows registry and Norton will do the same using WinDoctor.
    Again both can be run manually. Why shouldn’t the consumer be able to choose one or both?

    I can understand not running antivirus and adware applications from multiple vendors
    simultaneously in real time. But Ad-aware 2007 can be run manually or in real time. Articles in PC
    magazines several years ago suggested a layered defense utilizing software from multiple
    vendors like Ad-Aware and Spybot Search and Destroy.

    I was willing to take the chance on my Norton products not updating but I am not willing to do
    without a disk imaging solution! Now Microsoft’s anti-competitive practices mean I must either buy
    new security products for three PCs or new imaging solutions for three PCs.

    Sincerely,

     

    Tuesday, February 5, 2008 5:12 PM