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Problem Updating Investment Accounts RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • For years I've used Money99 on Windows 98, XP and 7 with no problem.

    I've always updated the accounts manually, never downloading files from any financial institution.

    With the end of Windows 7 approaching, I knew I would have to upgrade to Windows 10.  Somewhere I read that Money99 would not work on Windows 10, so I decided to upgrade to Money Sunset.

    I downloaded the USMoneyDlxSunset.exe installation file from: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/confirmation.aspx?id=20738

    I installed it on my 2 new Windows 10 PCs and also on my Windows 7 laptop that will be retired when I get everything converted.

    I found out that Money Sunset would not directly open a Money99 file so I followed the instructions in this topic and it seems to have converted the files perfectly: https://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/8450fc2e-a533-4246-ac02-5b678f751850/convert-or-open-money-99-file-in-sunset?forum=money

    The checking and savings accounts are working just as the did in Money99.

    My problem is with balancing my investment accounts.  The steps are not working the way they did in Money99.

    I don't manually enter buys/sells/dividends.  I simply enter each investment's number of shares and price per share and Money99 took care of adding or removing shares and updating the balance.  I am mainly looking for Money to update the total account value to agree with the current monthly paper statement.

    In the Sunset version I click on the account I want to balance which brings up the Account register.

    I then go to Common Tasks-->More investing tasks-->Update retirement account which brings up the same window as in Money99.

    In my example, at the bottom right hand corner, it shows the correct ending balance ($9,726.03) as of 12/31/2019.

    Next, I want to balance the account to my 01/31/2020 statement.

    I enter the number of shares and the price per share.  Money Sunset calculates the current value ($9,578.79) which agrees with my monthly statement.

    I click on the Next button and Money shows me the correct ending balance.

    So far this is exactly the same as it worked in Money99.  But, in Money99, when I clicked the Finish button, the Update window would close and the Account Value shown in the lower right hand corner of the Account register would change to the 01/31/2020 ending balance, as I would expect.

    Money Sunset doesn't work that way. When I click Finish, the Account Value remains unchanged.  This throws off any report and the balances shown in the Account list.

    Am I doing something wrong or is there a bug in Money Sunset?

    Wednesday, February 5, 2020 6:06 PM

All replies

  • Normally when you "balance" an investment account, you are in the Cash Transactions register rather than the Investment Transactions. Click CashTransactions in the left column.

    That Account Value that you see is the same as you will see in the Portfolio MarketValue column when you choose GroupBy: AccountName. So looking at the Portfolio, you can see what all contributed to that number.

    I think you already used the Shortcuts at the top of the Money window. Add in addition to what you have now, I would add  Portfolio, and Reports for sure. I also have  Categories, Payees, Capital Gains, Estimate Taxes, and Watch added.

    To help with entering current quotes, you might consider MSMoneyQuotes. $10 one time rather than being a subscription. If you want to limit the growth of your file, you could invoke MSMoneyQuotes with a batch file that specifies that the quotes go a specific file. However my Money Plus Sunset file is about 260 MB. Accumulated quotes, including the Watch accounts, is most of that.

    Pocketsense can get quotes and maybe even transactions. It takes more ability and effort to set up, but it can be really nice. Free. Many credit cards and brokers and a few bank make the transactions downloadable.

    Also note that you need the patch described in what is currently the first post in this forum.

    One thing I would very much encourage you do to do is to visit the backup settings. I have some suggestions:

    =====================================================================

    In M+: Tools->Settings->BackupSettings
    I suggest checking
     x Automatically backup my Money file every time I close Money
      Save in [a place on your hard drive ]. It is best to Browse to
         a location rather than typing the path.
       x Ask me before backing up each time*
       x Compress Backup Files
       Keep only the _20_most recent backup files [adjust to taste]
     
     x Perform scheduled backups every _14_ days
      Save in [a USB flash drive location]
       x Ask me before backing up each time*
       x Compress Backup Files
       Keep only the _4_most recent backup files [adjust to taste]

    Then periodically, perhaps each month or three, copy your latest
    backup (uniquely named by Money) to a CDR.


    * The reason I have Money ask me, is that I don't want to back up
    each time I exit.  If I went into Money 5 times in a day, I would
    not want to back up 5 times, nor would I want to delete 5 other
    backup files.  You will be given the choice to BackUpNow or to
    Postpone.






    Wednesday, February 5, 2020 6:50 PM
    Moderator
  • Nikki, Since you didn't add any shares, it would have been much simpler to select Update prices > Manual and add an update for 1/31/2020 with the 11.709998 quote. This would have fixed the total for you. As Cal stated, you wouldn't even have to do the manual update if you implement a method for importing quotes.
    Wednesday, February 5, 2020 8:50 PM
  • Thanks for both replies. 

    Cal Learner - With Money99 I never had a problem updating the account the way I described, but I tried going through balancing from the cash transactions but got the same result. The account list or portfolio view still show the 12/31 value.

    I saw the first topic about the patch but didn't really understand it. I'll go get it now.

    I have frequent, multiple backups already set up. I have for years.

    ameridan - Updating the price could possibly work but would be much more difficult since the price goes out to 6 decimal places.

    Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:27 PM
  • I tried to get the patched dll but ran into a problem. The blog says the link should take me to http://www.mediafire.com/?zj0amk06ax57cfg

    But when I click on that link, I get redirected to this site rather than mediafire:


    • Edited by nikki605 Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:39 PM
    Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:38 PM
  • Thanks for both replies. 

    Cal Learner - With Money99 I never had a problem updating the account the way I described, but I tried going through balancing from the cash transactions but got the same result. The account list or portfolio view still show the 12/31 value.

    I saw the first topic about the patch but didn't really understand it. I'll go get it now.

    I have frequent, multiple backups already set up. I have for years.

    ameridan - Updating the price could possibly work but would be much more difficult since the price goes out to 6 decimal places.

    The transactions you entered were dated 12/31. If you want the value to change, right-click some reference to the security in the Portfolio, myself. Select SeePriceHistory. Then UpdatePrices->UpdatePricesManually. Enter the new price. Date defaults to today, but do what is appropriate.

    You can also scroll through list to see past prices and splits.

    You can get there without going via the Portfolio, too.

    Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:39 PM
    Moderator
  • I tried to get the patched dll but ran into a problem. The blog says the link should take me to http://www.mediafire.com/?zj0amk06ax57cfg

    But when I click on that link, I get redirected to this site rather than mediafire:


    Use links from the first post on that thread. It is maintained. Based on your report, I will delete the link that goes off. I don't know if this is actually a dangerous site, but the fact that it doesn't work is enough for me to act.

    Here are checksums for the original problem version (no need to check both)

                    MD5                             SHA-1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    MD5 :cfe79399e2d2aca2c59df29cfef82ab1

    SHA-1: 3066eaaea63dd936451cf3bcdd06243423e6e853

    Here are the values for the patched version:

    MD5 :e413d40c05d1a2fbe179ed0f776ee3bb

    SHA-1: 24811ab5c33e26bee3a984698636262be77a78c5



    Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:45 PM
    Moderator
  • I tried to get the patched dll but ran into a problem. The blog says the link should take me to http://www.mediafire.com/?zj0amk06ax57cfg

    But when I click on that link, I get redirected to this site rather than mediafire:


    Use links from the first post on that thread. It is maintained. Based on your report, I will delete the link that goes off. I don't know if this is actually a dangerous site, but the fact that it doesn't work is enough for me to act.

    Here are checksums for the original problem version (no need to check both)

                    MD5                             SHA-1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    MD5 :cfe79399e2d2aca2c59df29cfef82ab1

    SHA-1: 3066eaaea63dd936451cf3bcdd06243423e6e853

    Here are the values for the patched version:

    MD5 :e413d40c05d1a2fbe179ed0f776ee3bb

    SHA-1: 24811ab5c33e26bee3a984698636262be77a78c5



    Okay, call me deaf, dumb and blind... which link from the first post?

    Wednesday, February 5, 2020 11:54 PM
  • "Ameridan offers an explanation in this page :  http://microsoftmoneyoffline.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/windows-8-64-bit-version-compatibility-with-sunset-money/ , and he has made a patched copy of mnyob99.dll for Deluxe available by clicking "here" on that page."

    Wait. Looking. Looking. Looking. There it is:

    "Thanks to John who has provided me with the patched file for the Plus Deluxe version of Sunset Money, I am making it available for you to download it  here.  "



    Thursday, February 6, 2020 2:49 AM
    Moderator
  • Okay, I'm not crazy. That's exactly where I went. When I hover the mouse pointer over "here" and look down at the lower left corner of the browser window, it says it's going to take me to--> http://www.mediafire.com/?zj0amk06ax57cfg

    But when I click on "here" I got this:

    Thursday, February 6, 2020 1:15 PM
  • You must not be selecting the light-green download button.  There are other links which are indeed not safe and proper, but it's been that way ever since Mediafire was created.
    Thursday, February 6, 2020 1:56 PM
  • UPDATE - I had to temporarily disable Norton to download the file. So now I have it.

    This looks correct to me - CRC SHA-1 - 24811ab5c33e26bee3a984698636262be77a78c5


    • Edited by nikki605 Thursday, February 6, 2020 2:35 PM
    Thursday, February 6, 2020 2:32 PM
  • The transactions you entered were dated 12/31. If you want the value to change, right-click some reference to the security in the Portfolio, myself. Select SeePriceHistory. Then UpdatePrices->UpdatePricesManually. Enter the new price. Date defaults to today, but do what is appropriate.

    You can also scroll through list to see past prices and splits.

    You can get there without going via the Portfolio, too.

    Cal Learner - Let me see if I can explain the way I updated accounts in Money99.  First, I did not manually enter the 12/31 "Add Shares" transaction in the Account register. The Pimco All Asset A fund is set up to reinvest quarterly dividends back into the fund. Therefore, the statement at the end of each quarter will show added fractional shares.

    Now, when I balanced the account in Money99, using the exact steps I listed in my initial post, for 12/31, the number of shares I entered were 9.097 more than when I balanced the account for 11/30.  When I click the "Finish" button in the last step of the Update procedure, two things happened - 1) Money99 would automatically create the "Add Shares" entry in the Account register that you see and 2) the Account Value shown in the bottom right hand corner would be updated to the new, 12/31 value.

    So back to my original question - how do I get the Investment Account Update function in Money Sunset to behave as it did in Money99?

    Thursday, February 6, 2020 3:24 PM
  • UPDATE - I had to temporarily disable Norton to download the file. So now I have it.

    This looks correct to me - CRC SHA-1 - 24811ab5c33e26bee3a984698636262be77a78c5


    That is correct. You can keep a copy named something else such as mnyob99.dll.patch, even in MNYCoreFiles. A reinstall will overwrite the  mnyob99.dll but would not affect mnyob99.dll.patch.
    Thursday, February 6, 2020 3:50 PM
    Moderator
  • Sorry being slow to pick that up. I track cash transactions. All of my accounts have TrackCashTransactions ticked in the account settings. So I would use a ReinvestTransaction transaction in the register.

    That function is grayed out for me. I had forgotten about the no-cash-tracking thing.

    I hope somebody familiar with that function will have a good answer for you.

    I had hoped that looking at that account in the Portfolio would show where the discrepancy was -- either a price wrong or a quantity wrong.




    Thursday, February 6, 2020 4:09 PM
    Moderator
  • I don't even know what Track cash transactions is or does, so I looked at the account settings for this Pimco account and found that that option is checked. What does it do?

    The Update retirement account being grayed out on your system totally confuses me. I would have freaked out if that happened to me.

    The Portfolio view also still shows 12/31 figures (I blotted out the Market Value total):

    Thursday, February 6, 2020 4:43 PM
  • When you transfer funds to your PIMCO Roth account, they go into the cash account.  This makes it nice for payroll deductions, for instance.  When PIMCO shares are purchased, the funds come out of that cash account.


    Thursday, February 6, 2020 5:39 PM
  • I don't even know what Track cash transactions is or does, so I looked at the account settings for this Pimco account and found that that option is checked. What does it do?

    The Update retirement account being grayed out on your system totally confuses me. I would have freaked out if that happened to me.

    The Portfolio view also still shows 12/31 figures (I blotted out the Market Value total):


    I see I have that account marked as Tax Deferred, but not retirement. That is why the selection is grayed out.

    PASAX PIMCO All Asset Fund Class A was $11.58 on Dec 31.

    11.89 * 818.001 = $9726.03189, which matches.

    Could your question be rephrased as  why does the $11.89 not change, or how do I make it change?

    To change the price in Money Plus, you can

    1. Enter the price quote manually (I think you know how to do that)
    2. Use MSMoneyQuotes to bring in prices. There have been discussions, but you can ask questions.
    3. Use PocketSense; what broker holds that IRA? I can tell you how PocketSense works with that institution probably. If it is still in a 401K, that may change things.
    4. Maybe download OFX or QIF files from your broker, and those may have the latest quotes in them.
    5. Use some other software... I have one in mind I have not tried.

    Money Plus won't get quotes on its own, and neither had Money 99 for quite a while.

    Thursday, February 6, 2020 7:31 PM
    Moderator
  • I guess I could rephrase my question, but then it makes me wonder what is the function of Update Retirement Account in Money Sunset? It's purpose seems to have changed since Money99.

    I have retirement accounts in 4 different firms - Nokia 401(k), Cetera, Lincoln Financial and Pimco. I log into each one individually.

    I have never even investigated downloading files from any of those firms. The next time I log into them, I'll have to look for any file download options. I always updated Money99 manually each month which didn't take that long. That's why I was so confused and frustrated when I used the exact same steps in Money Sunset and got different results.

    Thursday, February 6, 2020 10:09 PM
  • When you transfer funds to your PIMCO Roth account, they go into the cash account.  This makes it nice for payroll deductions, for instance.  When PIMCO shares are purchased, the funds come out of that cash account.


    Since I am retired, there is very little activity in these accounts. Dividends go in and the yearly RMD comes out.
    Thursday, February 6, 2020 10:14 PM
  • You may be the leading user of that function in this forum. You may find it easier to ignore that feature, and enter a ReinvestDividend  or Reinvest L-Term Capital Gains. Since it is in a retirement account, you could just consider all distributions to be dividends.

    Looking at what is available for getting quotes easiily, The Pimco holding has a symbol. If the others have symbols, I would suggest MSMoneyQuotes if you are willing to spend the $10. It is a pretty easy setup. There is a free trial.

     PocketSense is harder to set up.  If you move your holdings to a broker where PS can download the transactions, that can be a very useful. You can use both.




    Thursday, February 6, 2020 10:17 PM
    Moderator
  • I see that others (example: https://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/4571ca8e-8e67-435f-a5cd-72cb4e2b87da/help-with-updating-a-retirement-account?forum=money) have been disappointed in the "Update Retirement Account" option, and that Dick Watson responded:

    I do not recommend the Update Retirement Account method. It has never (over a decade) been reliable. Pathetic that Microsoft NEVER pondered, apparently, making it work right.  

    On another forum, he offered this (but it was for Money 2004):

    When I select "More investing Tasks->Update Retirement Account" or from Cash Account "Balance an account", I get this "wizard" that seems more
    complicated than reconciling individual transactions.  I can imagine this kind of wizard a decade ago being useful when retirement plans issue quarterly statements, without actual transactions. Nowadays, when actual transactions are available, this "wizard" seems unsuitable.

    As Cal stated, you might be better served (from January 1st forward) by adding transactions that reflect your dividends and distributions, rather than using the "Update Retirement Accounts" option.




    • Edited by ameridan Friday, February 7, 2020 1:55 AM
    Friday, February 7, 2020 1:45 AM
  • ameridan - that topic was an interesting find, particularly where he says "It has never (over a decade) been reliable." Since I never used any of the MS Money versions between Money99 and Money Sunset, maybe it's been broken for a long time and I just never knew it. Thanks!

    I saw the Account Update link at the bottom of the Account Summary page, but haven't done anything more than look at it. I guess it's time for me to use my test .mny file and play around with it.

    Friday, February 7, 2020 4:32 PM
  • ameridan - that topic was an interesting find, particularly where he says "It has never (over a decade) been reliable." Since I never used any of the MS Money versions between Money99 and Money Sunset, maybe it's been broken for a long time and I just never knew it. Thanks!

    I saw the Account Update link at the bottom of the Account Summary page, but haven't done anything more than look at it. I guess it's time for me to use my test .mny file and play around with it.

    Account update can get your holding totals right in short order, but for tracking performance, I think the ReinvestDividend transactions entered into the register are as easy on an ongoing basis, and better reflect reality.

    But yes, your testing is good. You can make a new test file by copying your current *.mny file to test2.mny. You could play with that. Maybe that is what test.mny is.

    Friday, February 7, 2020 4:41 PM
    Moderator
  • Account update can get your holding totals right in short order, but for tracking performance, I think the ReinvestDividend transactions entered into the register are as easy on an ongoing basis, and better reflect reality.

    But yes, your testing is good. You can make a new test file by copying your current *.mny file to test2.mny. You could play with that. Maybe that is what test.mny is.

    I left the "live" .mny file alone on my wife's desktop PC since she uses it daily to enter transactions into our checking & savings accounts. That part of Money Sunset works fine for her. I took a copy of the file right after I did the 12/31 balancing of the investment accounts using Money99. I converted that file to be compatible with Money Sunset and put it in a temporary "holding folder" on my laptop. I then copy that file into a "playing around with it folder" and try different things like making the screen shots for my initial post. When that screws up, I delete the file and copy the file from the "holding folder" again. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    If I get some time today, I'll play around with using the Account Update function on the Account Summary page to see how that works.

    Saturday, February 8, 2020 1:53 PM
  • I finally had an opportunity this morning to try the Account Update method.

    Using the Account Summary-->Account Update I was finally able to update the number of shares and share price to get the correct total account ending balance.

    All of the subsequent reports and account lists showed the correct month end balances.

    I found using the Account Update (which looks like a column and row spreadsheet) very quirky, however.  The result after updating the number of shares and/or price per share would vary depending on whether I used the Tab key or the Enter key.

    I started by clicking on the Name column heading to sort the list of holdings alphabetically.  But as I went through the updates, the list would re-sort.  I also found that the Total Quantity of shares for the next holding would get changed to the same quantity as the holding I just updated.

    In order to keep these things from happening, I was better off clicking on the Save and Finish button after updating each holding which took me out of the Account Update screen back to the Account Summary page.  It was a clunky way of doing it, but it worked.

    Does anyone have any experience with the Account Update screen and the correct way to navigate within it - Tab, Enter or mouse click?

    Wednesday, February 12, 2020 4:35 PM