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How should I best use my disks?

Question
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Hello,
I'm not sure if I'm being totally dumb but trying to figure out how to best use my disks has left my head in a spin.
As it stands I have a total of six disks, I have an internal 160GB drive as my system partition, and another internal 500GB disk.
I have four external drives, two Maxtor 320GB disks, and two Freecom 500GB disks.
At the moment both Maxtor disks contain data, the first one 'Media' contains my Documents, Pictures, Software, and Music, the second drive (almost full) contains my Videos. Everything on the 'Media' drive is backed up on my Desktop and to CrashPlan Central.
I have no backup of my Videos, but they're not really too important.
As the 'Move a Folder' wizard thing will not allow you to nominate a current folder as a server folder, I assume I am going to have to wipe the drive and then use the wizard, then copy the data back.
Basically what I want to know is how best to use my drives, I'm not going to rant about DE, it's gone, it's done. Am I best off using the internal disks and the smaller Maxtor's as storage and dedicating the Freecom disks to server backup?
Does anyone know what happens when a backup drive is full, will it fall over to the next backup drive, or will it duplicate what is already stored on the first backup drive?
As it stands I have 154GB of data on the 'Media' drive and 274GB on my 'Video' drive.
I apologise for sounding like a complete novice, but I have ended up over-thinking big style on this and started second guessing myself!
I just thought you clever folks might be able to shed some light on my scenario, and let me know how best to utilise what I have.
I think at some point I am going to have to invest in some 1TB or 2TB drives...
Thanks in advance.
I think most home users are going to be good providing they have a couple of large drives, however it's going to become pretty confusing for people (like myself) who have several varied drives left over from WHSv1.
Wednesday, February 23, 2011 1:39 PM
All replies
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Sounds like you are doing fine. I believe that once the backups are full, they are full.. that's it and you have to get a bigger drive and move the folder.Wednesday, February 23, 2011 4:31 PM
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Agreed. There is no automatic handling of Server backups, so it's a bigger drive or format and start again!Wednesday, February 23, 2011 5:46 PM
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I think most home users are going to be good providing they have a couple of large drives, however it's going to become pretty confusing for people (like myself) who have several varied drives left over from WHSv1.
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I now have two 7200 RPM 1 TB drives and two 5400 RPM 1 TB drives. Plus a variety of 250 to 420 GB drives. I got the 5400s at a real bargain, so I think I'll use them for the server.
What I'm thinking is to put one of the smaller drives in as my system drive, use the 7200 as the internal client backup drive and the two 5400s as external drives, swapping them out as needed.
Nancy WardWednesday, February 23, 2011 6:44 PM -
Thanks everyone, you've managed to put my mind at ease.
I can grab two 1TB drives here for around £70, or I can get a 2TB drive for around £60, the latter being a 5400 RPM job.
Can't really argue at that price...
Sounds like a good plan Nancy, although I'll probably use my faster drives for streaming content.
I'm not so concerned about my client backup's, as much as I am with my server 'content'.
I tend to run my clients as close to a 'thin client' as possible, I keep all my documents in Dropbox and use CrashPlan for anything I consider mission critical.
With similar backup's going to SugarSync and Windows Live Mesh.
Therefore if a client goes down, it's just a case of reinstalling the OS, which I quite enjoy.
I'd take the media/DLNA/central storage capabilities over the backup stuff any day.
Which is one of the reasons the DE announcement wasn't so bad, once I initially got over the shock.
Sean Daniel's review on the official WHS blog helped somewhat, even if it was a fairly clever ploy.
Wednesday, February 23, 2011 7:01 PM -
Sounds like you are doing fine. I believe that once the backups are full, they are full.. that's it and you have to get a bigger drive and move the folder.
This is not quite correct. According what I have been able to find out, once the backup drive gets full, the system deletes older backups as required to make room. This should mean that you do not need to lose all of the existing backups when the backup drive fills up.
If another RC comes out, I intend to try and test this after the reload by using a small drive as the backup drive. On the present build I have used a 1TB drive as backup and have only used 210GB for backups.
I t would interesting to know whether anyone has got to the stage of filling up their backup drive and then, making the assumption that the backup's haven't failed, looked to see whether the older backups have been deleted as expected.
Dave
The Frog on the Lilypad at HomeWednesday, February 23, 2011 7:50 PM -
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"According what I have been able to find out, once the backup drive gets full, the system deletes older backups as required to make room."Where did you see this information, was looking for this myself?
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Don
It's the conclusion I have come to and was reached from using information from various locations. Like yourself I cannot find anything totally concrete. It is not intended to be definitive statement but the impression and conclusion I reached. This may be right or wrong, so to try and at least give a slightly more concrete answer the following has been done. In my WHS2011rc machine I have changed one of my smaller internal drives into the backup drive and removed the larger external 1TB USB drive. One of the joy's of purely a test server, it really doesn't matter if it digs a big hole and jumps in.
While reading the forums again this evening, manual backups are being run to see what I can break, or at least try and see what happens once you run out of space on the backup drive. Not certain I will get to that point tonight (had way too many late nights) but I'll see how it goes.
Dave
The Frog on the Lilypad at HomeThursday, February 24, 2011 7:27 AM -
In my WHS2011rc machine I have changed one of my smaller internal drives into the backup drive and removed the larger external 1TB USB drive.
While reading the forums again this evening, manual backups are being run to see what I can break, or at least try and see what happens once you run out of space on the backup drive.
There was some interesting results with experimenting with the server backup and backup disk space.
My first reduced backup to the smaller internal backup disk resulted in an incomplete backup. My fault, during configuration I simply grabbed too many folders. It would appear that on a blank drive the backup does not check prior to backup to see if there is sufficient room for the data selected. Hence it failed backup as incomplete with 1GB left free on the disk.
Removed the drive from backup again and re-added it. This time was not offered the chance to format the drive as it was now a single partition, so I left it with the incomplete backup on it. Re-configured the backup to reduce the amount of data and re-ran the server backup again.
Keeping an eye on the free space on the backup drive saw it drop to 56GB free which would seem to indicate it had removed an part of the earlier backup. Once the backup was finished the drive showed 20 GB free.
This was only a quick and dirty test but it appears that the backup process does delete data off the backup drive, although the older backups still appeared in the list of backups. Over the weekend, when I will have more time, I will do a more structured test and see what happens. While data is deleted during the preparing for backup step, there is no indication what it is doing or what is triggering the deletions, let alone what was being deleted. All that can be seen is the disk free space increasing. While the disk is being used as a backup drive, it is not available to be seen in the desktop file explorer. Removing the disk from backup showed the same usage etc. as shown in dashboard.
I'll see how it goes over the weekend and report any conclusions back here.
Dave
The Frog on the Lilypad at Home- Edited by frogz1 Thursday, February 24, 2011 9:46 AM remove unexpected bolding
Thursday, February 24, 2011 9:45 AM -
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Ok, a follow up on server backups and what appears to be happening. These are my observations only and they are not intended to be any sort of answer to the WHS 2011 Great Backup Mystery. A little verbose but hopefully will be of interest to someone.
The backup disk I used is an internal WD 80GB. This is too small for normal use obviously, but very suitable for experimenting and enabling multiple backups to be run in a reasonable time frame.
The first backup consisted of the WHS system drive plus a couple of small shared folders giving a total of 21GB. Once the backup had completed the dashboard HD tab showed the correct space used/space free.
I then added a further 13GB of data and started another backup. Looking at the HD tab showed that the backup had calculated the space required and free space prior to commencing the data transfer. The figures had changed slightly at the end of the backup but not by much. After backup 33.5GB used and 41.1GB free.
Added a further 17 GB and re ran back up. As the preparing for backup was running the used space on the backup disk was calculated to be 50.9GB. Once the backup had completed this dropped to 50.1GB free. A corresponding change was also shown in the free space.
At this point, noted something I was not expecting. The total data being back up, as shown in the HD tab was 58.7 GB. The space used on the backup drive was only 50.9GB.
It appears that the backup routine had identified identical files in stored in different locations and only backed up one copy!. When I added data for the second backup, the 13 GB of files copied over consisted of 3 copies of the same files put into different folders. The data usage figures are not an exact match but close enough to make me suspicious that the backup routine is checking CRC's or such like and if finding a file match just adding a pointer in the backup database. Do not know with any certainty and would suspect it does not do any such checking but thought the discrepancy should be mentioned.
Right back to the continuing backups. I ran another backup without adding any extra data. There was no change in the disk used/disk free.
Added a further 20,5GB which will be enough to pretty much fill the backup drive.
After backup the used space was 69.7Gb and free space 4.8GB. The preparing for backup calculation had given figures of used 70.6GB and space 3.9GB.
Added a further 4.3 GB and re ran backup. Leaving 0.4GB free on the backup drive.
Crunch time, copied a further 2GB to a folder and ran backup expecting it to fail as the data I had added was cumulative and nothing had been deleted. This is precisely what occurred.
The more I thought about the backups, given what I had done above, there was no way the backup routine could free up any space by deleting a backup. Each backup only added the differences in data, so the accumulating data was effectively in every backup set. The backup routine could not delete anything as there was nothing unique in the first backup that was not included in the last successful backup.
It was time to redo the above but in the first backup have some data that I can delete prior to running backup 2.
Repeated the above steps with the exception, that before running the second backup, deleted several GB of files. Running the last backup which should have filled the disk, noted the free space increased. The backup completed successfully. The deleted files from the first backup appeared to be being removed off the backup disk. Unfortunately the backup itself was still listed in the server backups.
To summarise, as with any backup media when you run out of space you need another disk or second drive to do part of the back on.
If, over the period of the backups, data has been deleted off the server it appears, but is not proven, that the backup process does remove the data from the backup disk.
The above is my take on what occurred during my backup experiment. The figures given are accurate but the conclusions are my own and should be taken as such.
Dave
The Frog on the Lilypad at HomeSaturday, February 26, 2011 7:28 AM -
That's very helpful, thank you Dave.
I suppose the ideal scenario is two have at least two pretty large disks, or worst case scenario, one that you reformat when it becomes full, however I don't see the latter being a viable option for people who aren't comfortable and/or familiar with the process of wiping a disk.
Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:28 PM