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Hard Drive Removal RRS feed

  • Question

  • I'm having a problem removing hard drives from my RC1 installation.

     

    My Hard Drive setup is as follows:

     

    - 500GB, sata, MB port, Boot drive

    - 500GB, sata, MB port

    - 320GB, IDE, MB port

    - 320GB, IDE, MB port

    - 250GB, IDE, MB port

    - 250GB, IDE, MB port

    - 250GB, IDE, HPT374

    - 250GB, IDE, HPT374

    - 250GB, IDE, HPT374

    - 250GB, IDE, HPT374, not added

     

    Total Size = 2.63TB

    Free Space = 969.24GB

     

    Ran Talq.exe, Cab # 352236604

     

    I wanted to move some of the drives around due to cabling and port connections. I have tried to remove one hard drive at a time, except the boot drive and I receive the followin message:

     

    - Some files or folder will be permanently lost; and

    - No computer backups will be lost, or

    - All computer backups stored on your home server will be permanently lost ( depending on the drive).

     

    I ran the "backup cleanup" several time, but this made no difference. 

     

    Has anyone else run into this problem???

     

     

    tks 

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 12:26 AM

Answers

  •  Vsawler wrote:

     

    I would have like to post the actual screen shot of my console and disk management, but I haven't had any luck doing it.

    Vince,

    Unfortantly this forum will not let you embed a screen shot in the text...I'm not sure why.  You have to "host" the screenshot you want to display on then internet somewhere (for example, Flickr at http://www.flickr.com/) and then link to the image using the Link Icon available in the menu bar when you are posting a message here.

    I hope you will find this tip useful. 

    Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:58 PM
  • I have sent a mail to you just now.  Did you try renaming all your long path named files to something else and then do disk removal?  The list of long path named files will be there in the health tab of your Windows home server console.

    Tuesday, July 3, 2007 5:50 PM

All replies

  • I'm a bit confused as to what the problem is?

    You are using ~1.66TB of data and want to remove your hard drives except for the 500gb drive.

    So you would be losing about 1.2tb of data, which that message is probably refering to.

    Does it say all of those messages at once or something? Cause that would be quite confusing if it did.

     

     

     

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 2:01 AM
  •  Vsawler wrote:
     I ran the "backup cleanup" several time, but this made no difference. 

    Backup cleanup will not make very much difference. For example if you backup a WS with 250Gb of data your first backup will contain all those data. If after that you do multiple backups without adding or changing large amounts of data they will be very small, so removing them will not have much of an effect.

     

    If you want to remove any disk you will have to keep enough disks left to keep all your data. This means that you simply can not remove all disks without losing data. Probably you can design a smart scheme where you take out something like four disks, move them, and then do the same for another set of disks

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 9:46 AM
    Moderator
  • Let me clarify: 

     

    If I try and remove ONE hard drive I wil get one of the following messages:

     

    1.  Some files or folder will be permanently lost; and

         No computer backups will be lost

     

    OR

     

    2. Some files or folder will be permanently lost; and

        All computer backups stored on your home server will be permanently lost.

     

    Message #1 or 2 is displayed depending on what hard drive I'm trying to remove. The message is part of the "Hard Drive Removal Consequences"  window. Choices are "back - finish - cancel".  You can get to this point and select "cancel" with out any changes to the storage pool.

     

    It's a bit strange, because 2 of the hard drives are 99% free, according to drive manager.

     

     

     

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 10:01 AM
  • Tks

     

    I didn't think cleanup would have much of an effect, but there's not much else you can select for maint....

     

    That was a typo it should have been "ANY" not all...

     

     

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 10:03 AM
  • - Have you disabled folder duplication for all shared folders?

    - Do have RAID arrays in your system? I have no personal experience with RAID and WHS, but I can imagine this might complicate things

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 1:39 PM
    Moderator
  • Just as an extra note:

     

    If all you want to do is recable, shift drives in the system around a bit...  You could power the system down (with the storage pool as normal) clean up cabling/shift drives, then power the system back up.  WHS will recognize that the drives have shifted, and compensate for it.

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 2:12 PM
  • Brubber

     

    Never thought of Folder duplication being a problem, as I only have less than 500MB set for duplication.

     

    I'll give it a try .

     

    tks

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 2:24 PM
  • Sorry that won't work, at tleast it didn't on CTP. I had an IDE port go bad, move the drives to another port and WHS did not recognize the drives. I had to manually copy the data off the drives.

    I'm not sure how RC1 will react if I move drives to different IDE ports and I just don't feel like recovering the data manually, unless I really have to!

     

    tks

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 2:32 PM
  •  Vsawler wrote:

    Sorry that won't work, at tleast it didn't on CTP. I had an IDE port go bad, move the drives to another port and WHS did not recognize the drives. I had to manually copy the data off the drives.

    I'm not sure how RC1 will react if I move drives to different IDE ports and I just don't feel like recovering the data manually, unless I really have to!

     

    tks

     

    Hmm, I've moved Sata drives around without a problem and had the system find them...  Now that I think about it though, I moved them to different ports on the same controller, I never tried to move a drive from one controller to another.  I wonder if that's why it didnt' work for you.

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 3:17 PM
  • Were you trying to physically remove the drive before using "Remove Drive"?  You can (will) lose data that way.

     

    The correct procedure is to use the Remove Drive option -- before unplugging anything -- which will evaluate the situation and prepare to migrate all the files from that drive to the others.  If there's not enough space elsewhere for all the files, then it will report that data would be lost.  If there's a place for all the files to move elsewhere, while respecting duplication settings, then the process can be started.

     

    You may be able to get further if you temporarily turn off duplication.  This will increase the space available for migration, and reduce the amount of time needed as well.

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 7:28 PM
  • Tks for you thoughts, but the only time you can get the "folder/backup" loss screen is if you use the "remove" button in the "storage tab", which is what I used.

     

    As in the first post there is over 960GB of free space.

     

    The only thing I did have ~500MB in folder duplication. I've since turned it off and it didn't make any difference. I still can't remove a hard drive from the storage pool using the "remove drive" option.

     

     

    Saturday, June 23, 2007 11:32 PM
  •  Vsawler wrote:

    I'm having a problem removing hard drives from my RC1 installation.

     

    I wanted to move some of the drives around due to cabling and port connections. I have tried to remove one hard drive at a time, except the boot drive and I receive the followin message:

     Has anyone else run into this problem???

     

     

    Yes. I have run into this same error saying "some of my files and folders would be permanently lost.  All backups will be lost."

     

    The circunstances are different.  I was trying to run Defrag on the server.  One of my two 300GB SATA drives were being defraged and could not complete because the file it was trying to Drfrag was very large (Recorded TV Video).  When I got back control on the server, I had a critical health problem in the WHS Drive Health Tab telling me the Sata drive was in trouble and was going to fail.  When I tried to move the data off the drive to save it onto other drives (using the remove option in the WHS Server Storage Tab) I got the error mentioned above.  I just rebooted the server and the problem went away.  The health warning was gone.  I have operated for several days since with no problems.

    Sunday, June 24, 2007 12:58 AM
  • Tks, but I've restarted the Server and I've gone through trying to remove all the drives, one at a time. I still can't remove a drive, without losing files or backups.....
    Sunday, June 24, 2007 12:58 PM
  •  Vsawler wrote:
    Tks, but I've restarted the Server and I've gone through trying to remove all the drives, one at a time. I still can't remove a drive, without losing files or backups.....

    Yes. I agree with you Vsawler. I can duplicate the error.  I think this is a definite bug.  You have already submitted CAB numbers, etc.  If someone on the WHS Team wants me to submit talq.exe reports I will be happy to do so.  If I hear nothing I will not submit the bug report info.

    Sunday, June 24, 2007 2:53 PM
  • I am actually not so sure this is really a bug, even though WHS is reporting over 900GB of available storage, this amount of space available is accross all drives in the pool but from what I understand when you remove a drive it wants the whole amount of space from that drive available on a single drive not accross multiple drives so in this case it's very possible that the 900GB available is really 100GB available amongst 9 drives and therefore it's not possible to remove a single 300GB drive without losing data because there's not enough space on any of the drives to hold all of the 300GB.

    Sunday, June 24, 2007 3:05 PM
  •  YannLG wrote:

    I am actually not so sure this is really a bug, even though WHS is reporting over 900GB of available storage, this amount of space available is accross all drives in the pool but from what I understand when you remove a drive it wants the whole amount of space from that drive available on a single drive not accross multiple drives so in this case it's very possible that the 900GB available is really 100GB available amongst 9 drives and therefore it's not possible to remove a single 300GB drive without losing data because there's not enough space on any of the drives to hold all of the 300GB.

     

    I see your point, YannLG.  WHS may be set up to this requirement.  In that case you would first have to add a new drive of equal or greater size for the one your want to (either temporarily or permanently) remove from the pool.  It would be nice if WHS could use the total available space across multiple drives instead, but It may not be possible because of the way Drive Exntender works or some other technical reason only understood by the WHS development team. 

     

    Maybe we will get a definitive answer from someone on the Development Team if they are following this thread.

    Sunday, June 24, 2007 3:24 PM
  • Yes I agree that it would be nice but it sounds very difficult to implement because moving a huge amount of data to multiple drives takes quite some time especially that much data so that process would need to be dynamic because it would need to make sure that no other data uses up the space that it had available when the transfer first started so it doesn't run out of space before it's done copying the data, so as you can see it would be much easier and less likely to fail if it knew that one drive had enough space to hold all of the data of the particular drive that you're trying to remove.

    I actually believe that the removal process tells you somewhere in the process that you may have to add another HDD before being able to remove the drive.

    But I agree let's see if we can get an official answer from the development team.

     

    Sunday, June 24, 2007 4:00 PM
  •  

    Nice idea, but if that were the case I should have no problem removing drives:

     

    Info take from Disk Management (WHS)

     

       Drive         Size                  Free

     

    - sys c:            20.00GB      14.98GB

    - data d:        445.75GB    442.75GB

    - data            232.88GB    166.82GB

    - data            233.75GB      19.83GB

    - data            233.75GB      17.47GB

    - data            232.88GB    217.09GB

    - data            232.88GB    232.81GB

    - data            232.88GB      16.93GB

    - data            298.08GB      15.60GB

    - data            465.75GB      19.01GB

    - data            298.08GB        8.46GB

    - not added  232.88GB     232.81GB

     

    Two of the drive I want to remove have 217GB & 232GB free and the data-d: partition has 442.75GB free. I should beable to remove any drive except the 465GB one.

     

    I would have like to post the actual screen shot of my console and disk management, but I haven't had any luck doing it.

     

    Thanks for all your help, are there any other ideas?

    Sunday, June 24, 2007 6:16 PM
  • Hi Vsawler,

     

    Thanks for posting those details and actually this doesn't disprove my theory but it may be adding another element because if you look none of your drives but d: has enough free space to hold the whole amount of potential space of even the smallest of your drives: 232.88GB and looking at how demigrator works it seems like that as soon as something gets moved to D: it wants to be moved right away to any of the other drives so the removal process probably wouldn't use D: as a destination.

    Now there may be a bug in the sense that it should really be looking at the used space rather than the full size of the drive.

     

    What about that theory? hehe

    Sunday, June 24, 2007 7:51 PM
  • That maybe the case. We will have to get the Mythbusting team from Home Server to enlighten us......
    Monday, June 25, 2007 12:49 AM
  • Ok. I'm in the process of a Disk Cleanup that will remove 191GB of backups.

    Once this is done I'll try removing the drive one at a time??????

    Monday, June 25, 2007 10:18 PM
  •  Vsawler wrote:

    Ok. I'm in the process of a Disk Cleanup that will remove 191GB of backups.

    Once this is done I'll try removing the drive one at a time??????

     

     

    My console shows only 4.9gb of backups, but there are no computer backups listed under the "compter & backup" tab.

     

    I tried to remove all data drive one at a time with no success. Same results as before.????

    Monday, June 25, 2007 11:46 PM
  • MY WHS is on the following hardware:-

     

    - ECS RS480-m motherboard;

    - AMD Athlon 3200

    - 1GB ram

    - HPT454 PCI 4 port IDE/Raid controller.

      No raid array configured, just used as an IDE controller; and

    - Gigabit Ethernet card.

     

     I wonder if the Highpoint-tech drivers are causing a problem?

     

    Vince

     

    Monday, June 25, 2007 11:52 PM
  • I just realized this moring that I had a small 20GB drive I could test with to shed light on this problem. I trried to remover the drive using the WHS console and it looks like it would be successful.  See the screen shot here.  The drive I am removing is 19.08 Maxtor drive.  No Files or Folders lost; no Backups lost.  Still not sure if it is a bug or not when trying to remove drives with larger amounts of data but it seems to be functioning correctly here.  I still think we would need some input from a WHS Team Member who knows more about how Drive Extender works to know if Vince (Vsawler) has found a bug or not.

     

    Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:38 PM
  • That's exactly what I could do until late last week!

     

    I'll try adding a small drive when I get home and see what happens...

     

     

    tks

     

    Vince

    Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:39 PM
  • Gotta wonder if the number of physical drives on your system is driving WHS buggy. I went with two sata 500gb drives to keep it simple...

     

    When WHS goes production, I'll probably install multiple 750gb or higher drives just to limit the mass confusion

    Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:50 PM
  •  nyjosh wrote:

    Gotta wonder if the number of physical drives on your system is driving WHS buggy. I went with two sata 500gb drives to keep it simple...

     

    When WHS goes production, I'll probably install multiple 750gb or higher drives just to limit the mass confusion

     

    Naw, I've got 10 physical drives installed in my system, from 320gb up to 1tb in size each, and I've never had the problems mentioned here.

    Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:17 PM
  •  Vsawler wrote:

     

    I would have like to post the actual screen shot of my console and disk management, but I haven't had any luck doing it.

    Vince,

    Unfortantly this forum will not let you embed a screen shot in the text...I'm not sure why.  You have to "host" the screenshot you want to display on then internet somewhere (for example, Flickr at http://www.flickr.com/) and then link to the image using the Link Icon available in the menu bar when you are posting a message here.

    I hope you will find this tip useful. 

    Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:58 PM
  • I too ran into this issue, I had 7 drives in the system with over 75% of the space available and I was not able to remove any drives without being told I'd lose data.  I disabled all duplication and tried again, and got the same error.  I wound up rebuilding the system and did not run into the issue again.
    Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:53 PM
  • Hi

     

    What hardware are you using on your server?

     

     

    Vince

    Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:46 PM
  • Hi

     

    Well I connected a 80GB USB2 drive and added it to the storage pool. Restarted WHS a couple of time and then did the "remove drive". I got the same error, file and backups will be lost if you contimue. Kind of funny, since I don't have any backups and backup is turned off??

     

    I would hate for this to happen once WHS goes to RTM......

     

     

    Vince

    Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:03 PM
  •  Vsawler wrote:

    Hi

     

    Well I connected a 80GB USB2 drive and added it to the storage pool. Restarted WHS a couple of time and then did the "remove drive". I got the same error, file and backups will be lost if you contimue. Kind of funny, since I don't have any backups and backup is turned off??

     

    I would hate for this to happen once WHS goes to RTM......

     

     

    Vince

     

     

    Has any one from the Home server team seen the "  Talq Cab # 352236604".  Just wondering,we haven't heard from anyone....

     

     

    Vince

    Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:13 AM
  •  Vsawler wrote:

    Has any one from the Home server team seen the "  Talq Cab # 352236604".  Just wondering,we haven't heard from anyone....

      

     

    I have contacted a person on the WHS Team that I have email contact with to look at this thread.  Out of courtesy, I will not reveal the name until they ok it.  Unfortunantly, the lead on DE is out of the office until the end of this week, but the info was passed on via email so we may hear from the WHS Team on this by next week.  We'll see...

    Wednesday, June 27, 2007 9:36 PM
  •  Vsawler wrote:

    I'm having a problem removing hard drives from my RC1 installation.

     

    My Hard Drive setup is as follows:

     

    - 500GB, sata, MB port, Boot drive

    - 500GB, sata, MB port

    - 320GB, IDE, MB port

    - 320GB, IDE, MB port

    - 250GB, IDE, MB port

    - 250GB, IDE, MB port

    - 250GB, IDE, HPT374

    - 250GB, IDE, HPT374

    - 250GB, IDE, HPT374

    - 250GB, IDE, HPT374, not added

     

    Total Size = 2.63TB

    Free Space = 969.24GB

     

    Ran Talq.exe, Cab # 352236604

     

     

    Hi ??????,  (Wow, I would have sworne there was a post here asking for the talq.exe results... Must have been deleted)

    Thanks for your interest.  I assume you are on the WHS Team?  Please note the Cab # 352236604 in the initial post.  Hope this is what you are looking for.

    Best regards,

     

    Wednesday, June 27, 2007 9:49 PM
  • Hi vsawler,

     

    I am a dev in WHS team.  Can you please check whether all your files greater than 260 paths are openable?  Please rename them so that their path becomes lesser than 240 chars and then try removing the disk again.  Thanks!!

    Wednesday, June 27, 2007 9:50 PM
  • Yes, I saw that :-).
    Wednesday, June 27, 2007 9:52 PM
  •  MythiliM wrote:
    Yes, I saw that :-).

     

    Great Mythili glad you are here!  Now I will get out of the way and let you and Vince work out the details.  Thanks for looking in on us.

    Regards,

    Wednesday, June 27, 2007 9:59 PM
  • I am posting it again, just in case if you didn't see it:-). 

     

    Hi vsawler,

     

    I am a dev in WHS team.  Can you please check whether all your files greater than 260 paths are openable?  Please rename them so that their path becomes lesser than 240 chars and then try removing the disk again.  Thanks!!

    Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:31 PM
  • Hi

     

    A few days after I installed RC1 I had a couple of files over 260chars ( got the warning in the console), I fixed them and haven't had a warning since.

     

    I currently don't have a warning for any files/path over 260 chars.

     

    Vince

    Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:05 AM
  • Hi

     

    There a bit of time zone difference, but I just got in a few minutes ago.

     

    I checked my WHS and no notifications in the console. Is their a log file I can check?

     

     

    tks

     

    Vince

    Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:24 AM
  • SeeRay33

     

    Thanks for your time and help!

     

    Vince

    Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:25 AM
  • Just to throw a twist o this whole thing.

     

    When I turned on my WHS this evening I get:

     

    Backup Server Error

     

    A possible database consistency problem has been detected in the backup data base.

     

     

     

    This all well and good, but I don't have any backups, I trashed them all, turned off backup and ran "backup cleanup". But under Server Storage, it still shows 4.9GB of backups.

     

    I'm going to run the Backup Cleanup to see if it get rid of this error.

     

     

    Vince

    Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:51 AM
  •  Vsawler wrote:

    SeeRay33

     

    Thanks for your time and help!

     

    Vince

    Thanks should go to MythiliM.  He's the one who can help .  But I do appreaciate your post.  You are most welcome.  Hope this turns out well.

    Best regards,

    Thursday, June 28, 2007 1:01 AM
  • Hi,

     

    Can you please send us your email ID to home-server@hotmail.com so that our communications can be faster?

     

    Thursday, June 28, 2007 7:34 PM
  •  MythiliM wrote:

    Hi,

     

    Can you please send us your email ID to home-server@hotmail.com so that our communications can be faster?

     

     

    Vsawler/Vince,

    I think they mean you.  They already have my email addres.  Sending my email address to home-server@hotmail.com is the way I set up direct email contact with the WHS Team.  It is safe and they would like to communicate with your directly on the hard drive removal problem you are describing in this thread. 

    Good Luck,

    Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:10 PM
  • Hi

     

    I replied a couple of hours ago....

     

    Vince

    Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:17 PM
  •  VSawler wrote:

    Just to throw a twist o this whole thing.

     

    When I turned on my WHS this evening I get:

     

    Backup Server Error

     

    A possible database consistency problem has been detected in the backup data base.

     

     

     

    This all well and good, but I don't have any backups, I trashed them all, turned off backup and ran "backup cleanup". But under Server Storage, it still shows 4.9GB of backups.

     

    I'm going to run the Backup Cleanup to see if it get rid of this error.

     

     

    Vince

     

    Submitted Talq Cab# 353854583 on  " a possible database consistency problem has been detected in the backup database".

     

    Used the procedure from the following link"

     

     

    http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1744726&SiteID=50

     

     

    Worked like a charm!

     

    As expected, it didn't help with the drive removal problem.

     

    Vince

    Saturday, June 30, 2007 1:17 AM
  •  VSawler wrote:

    Hi

     

    I replied a couple of hours ago....

     

    Vince

     

     

    Still no luck removing drives...

     

    Vince

    Saturday, June 30, 2007 1:19 AM
  • Anybody from the WHS team their?
    Monday, July 2, 2007 10:48 PM
  • I have sent a mail to you just now.  Did you try renaming all your long path named files to something else and then do disk removal?  The list of long path named files will be there in the health tab of your Windows home server console.

    Tuesday, July 3, 2007 5:50 PM
  • A BIG thanks to MythiliM .....

     

    Yesterday with MythiliM direction, we were able to fix my drive removal problem...

     

     

    It turns out I had a few file, that the combined path/file name were over 240chars.

    But WHS was not reporting this to the console. This information is contained in the,

    "c:\documents and settings\all users\application data\microsofy\windows home server\q_de.log."

     

    There alot of info in this log, so load it and search for 240 and you be in the area. Just look for

    the offending file name.

     

     

    I've successfully removed and added 4 hard drives.

     

    Again thatks to MythiliM

     

     

    Vince

    Thursday, July 5, 2007 1:19 AM