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WHS Shutdown-Will Not Boot-Whining Noise from CPU Fan RRS feed

  • Question

  •  

    I came into my office and WHS was not running.  I was a WHS beta tester and am still running the server I built for the beta period.  I can provide more details about the server hardware if requested.  The server has been operational since May, 2007. When I tried to restart it I got ablosutely no video on the screen (I had just attached a monitor to debug the problem).When I force the shut down by holding the power button in for a sufficient time and when the server is started back up with the power button I hear this whining noise.  The noise is longer when I start the server but eventually goes away.  When I power the server down, the whiring noise climbs to a higher pitch for a few seconds and winds down as the fans in the computer come to a stop. I have removed both tower sides so I can get free access to all components.  I disconnected power to all internal hard drives as well as the CD-DVD drive. The server has two fans, one for the CPU and a main fan in the rear of the tower. For debuging the whining sound, I temporarly revmoved the power line for the main fan from the mother board.  With all of this disconnected, I still get the whiring noise as described above so I a failry certain the whiring noise is coming from the CPU fan positioned over the CPU.

     

    Question:  I see that the CPU fan is turning at a high rate of speed.  It looks like the normal speed to me, but if it is slowed because the fan is defective would this cause the system NOT to boot because it thinks the CPU fan is off or degraded and video not to be shown during an attempted boot?

     

    Question 2:  Do you think my problem is a defective CPU fan?

     

    Question 3:  If answers to questions 1 and 2 are yes, should I try to oil or otherwise repair the fan or just replace it?

     

    Comment: I have disconnected the lever that holds the CPU fan on the CPU and the CPU fan appears to be stuck to the top of the CPU.  I may have some difficulty getting the CPU fan off the CPU.

     

    Question 4: Do any of you have any recommendations for removing the CPU fan from the CPU that would avoid damage to the CPU?

     

    Sorry this is so long, but I hoped to provide the info you might need to solve my problem and get my server operational again.  I have become very dependent on WHS and its almost like withdrawing access from the internet

     

    Best regards,

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 2:04 PM

Answers

  • George,

    A few thoughts, I'm sure other people will also have suggestions as well.

    Have you checked your BIOS, some motherboards, if they have fan control, might well prevent booting if the server has had overheating problems until it is re-set. Also, if they do have fan control, it might well run at full speed, until the controller cuts in.

    If you disconnect all the disks - DVD drive etc and try to boot, can you see anything at all on the screen, if there is nothing, it could be either that one of the lines from your PSU has failed, or your motherboard has given up the ghost!

     

    Colin

     

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 6:04 PM
  • George,

     

    I agree with Colin. Looks like the PSU or motherboard has failed. The sound you hear may come from eighter the PSU or CPU fan. Check by keeping the CPU fan from spinning (by holding it with one finger for instance) and then hitting the server powerswitch. If you hear the whining sound you know it is the PSU and replacing it will probably get your server online.

     

    If not, then it must be the CPU fan that makes the noise. Actually, I don't think then this fan is keeping your server from booting. Many BIOSes control the speed of the fan. The motherboard starts out with maximum rotation speed and when   the BIOS takes over it spins down to normal operation speed. Looks like your system doesn't even get to the BIOS.

     

    You should at least get into the BIOS. Difficult to say what is the trouble: could still be a defective PSU, so try replacing that first. If this not solves the problem:

    - could be one or more RAM-sticks that are defective (this could very well prevent the Video card from working)

    - a defective Video controller.

    - a defective CPU.

    - a defective motherboard.

    To find out I would strip the motherboard from all unnecessairy hardware (Disk drives, PCI-cards) and then try different RAM sticks, next an alternate video controller and finally the CPU. If all this fails to get to the problem it is probably your motherboard that needs replacement.

     

    Good luck!

    Theo.

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 7:49 PM
    Moderator
  • The whining noise could be the the power suply fan or CPU fan as Theo sugested but it's probably not is causing the computer not to turn on.  I would try removing all the hardware from the motherboard except the CPU and FAN. (Power switch and PC speaker are a must as well)  Try turning it on if you get any beeps.  If you still don't get any beeps try again without the CPU.  If you still don't get beeps then I agree it could be motherboard or PSU failure.  

     

    You'd have to check your motherboard manual for what the beep codes mean or lack of mean.

     

    JM

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 8:18 PM
  •  SeaRay33 wrote:

     

    Question: Could plugging in a high demand item (like a color laser printer) cause the PSU to fail?  I did not realize how PSU's fail since I have never seen a failure in one before and I have been using PCs for over 25 years.  To say the least, it is a suprise to me that the PSU would fail, but of course, it is just another electrical part so it should not suprise me.


    You should never plug a laser into a UPS - the load and noise some lasers put on them can kill the UPS in one go.  To be honest I have never heard of anything external killing a PSU plugged into an UPS other than the odd lightning bolt.  If the laser was on the output side it is possible a spike was transfered to the PSU.


     SeaRay33 wrote:

    Now I will go get or order a new power supply, so I have a few quesitons. I will be adding another 750GB internal IDE to the server soon. It was ordered before the PSU failure.  Right now, including the sys drive, I have a total of 4 internal drives ( one 300GB and 1 500GB IDE drives) and 2 SATA drives (both 300GB).  The IDE drives are connected via ribbon cables (along with the DVD drive) to the mobo.  The SATA drives are also conected via SATA cables to the mobo.  I do not have any controller cards in slots.  I will be adding another IDE ribbon cable to the mobo to  attach the new 750GB drive.  That will fill my IDE connctors on the mobo.  I will eventually add one more SATA drive internally and use an existing SATA connector on the mobo, but that drive has not been orderd yet.

     

    In addition to the internal drives I have two 500GB USB drives and one 320GB USB drive connected to the mobo via USB, of course, but power for the all three external drives does not go through the mobo as these external drives are power directly.

     

    I don't expect to add controller cards to this server or other PCI attached cards.

    Make sure you have the largest drive as your primary - this may mean a total rebuild but without it you will find many problems in WHS over time.


     SeaRay33 wrote:

    Question:  I have a 400 Watt PSU that failed.  Should I get a 600 Watt or better or is that overkill? 

     

    Question 2:  I have done a search on the net and see PSU's running from about $27 to over $60.  Is quality a factor here or should I Just go for the best price I can find?

     

    Question 3: What is the best price/quality I should expect to find for a 400W or 600W PSU?

     

    One final comment and Question.  The PSU I have now came in the Tower I bought from Newegg.  The tower is still under warranty. Because of the time factor to RMA the PSU or Tower, I will probably just go ahead and buy a PSU instead of bothering with the Newegg RMA.  Do any of you have any comments on buying the PSU seperately vs. RMAing it with Newegg?

     

    Thank you all for the time you have spent with me on this.

     



    1) - Go for the bigger unit - no PSU like stress and they run cooler with power to spare

    Find out the total start up power requirements by voltage of all units (inc DVD / Video card etc) as these are higher than the running level and take this figure as 75% of the required capacity.  Remember even 600W may not give you enough power on a given line - each voltage needs to be checked and the PSU must supply each voltage with the required current.


    2) - Quality does not come with cost but it can be a good indication.

    Do a google for PSU reveiws or find a mag on overclocking as those guys stress PSU beyond anything else I have seen (except for a fully laden AS/400 D70 but that was many years ago)


    3) - Akasa are around £80 for 650W in the UK and I've stressed one or two of these before with no issues.


    4) Sorry - not delt with Newegg


    Andrew

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 2:28 PM
  • George,

    Glad your getting somewhere!

    Do you have access to another PSU prior to buying a new one, it could be worthwhile just to confirm!

    FYI, whichever PSU you try, ensure it's an 80+ model. I guess most of them are, but this site will give you the low-down.

    What sometimes happens with failed supplies, is that the output voltage drops to too low for the connected items to work, usually because of the capacitors involved not being up to it. Adding the extra drive, might just have been enough to push it over the edge.

     

    Colin

     

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 6:17 PM
  •  

    SeaRay,

    I fully agree with Colin; check with an old PSU first before buying a new PSU when possible. It is the only way to confirm that it is actually the PSU that failed.

     

    Concerning one of your other questions: ones PSU failure is confirmed and you decide to order a new one I would definitely not go for the cheepest since your server in going to be online for 24/7 and reliability of the PSU is a requirement. Also when you do order a new one you might also want to check the PSU operating specifications on noise levels and maybe if it has a temperature controlled fan speed?

     

    Just one last remark: you might also want to check your UPS'es power ratings. With an underated UPS you could eventually get into other troubles. If have seen reports of unexplainable WHS disk "failures" caused by the UPS system.

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 9:30 PM
    Moderator
  • SeaRay,

    As you concluded yourself, the old PSU is not suitable. So do NOT use this one for testing!

    (Maybe converter cables exist, but I have no experience with this option so I would advise against it...)

     

    Then, in addition to my earlier reply: you could also opt for getting a cheepest PSU you can get your hands on.  You then could allways decide on buying a 'real' one later?

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 9:51 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • What type of processor do you have in your computer and speed?  AMD and Intel processors since P4's and Athlon S939 processors (ruffly in the last 6 years) have built in thermal detection.  I've seen many AMD processors simply reboot when they get to hot and many Intel processors slow down when they are too hot.

     

    1. If the CPU Fan is spinning it's probably ok.  Once  you get the video working check the temps in the bios just to be sure.

    2.  I doubt it.

    3.  I've never tried oiling a fan before, I've just replaced them because it's been more convenient that way for me.

    4.  Depends on the type of motherboard and CPU you have.   Most CPU Fans are connected to heatsink and when you unclip the CPU fan you are unclipping both so you can try holding rotating the heatsink back forth a bit without applying any downwards preasure.

     

    Before struggling with the CPU fan, check that your power supply is set to 115V.  Maybe someone flicked the switch in the back of it and changed it to 230V.  If that's not the case, I would recommend reseating all of your AGP/PCI/PCI-E cards and memory and try booting it up again.

     

    JM 

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 6:00 PM
  • George,

    A few thoughts, I'm sure other people will also have suggestions as well.

    Have you checked your BIOS, some motherboards, if they have fan control, might well prevent booting if the server has had overheating problems until it is re-set. Also, if they do have fan control, it might well run at full speed, until the controller cuts in.

    If you disconnect all the disks - DVD drive etc and try to boot, can you see anything at all on the screen, if there is nothing, it could be either that one of the lines from your PSU has failed, or your motherboard has given up the ghost!

     

    Colin

     

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 6:04 PM
  •  jm987 wrote:

    What type of processor do you have in your computer and speed?  AMD and Intel processors since P4's and Athlon S939 processors (ruffly in the last 6 years) have built in thermal detection.  I've seen many AMD processors simply reboot when they get to hot and many Intel processors slow down when they are too hot.

     

    1. If the CPU Fan is spinning it's probably ok.  Once  you get the video working check the temps in the bios just to be sure.

    2.  I doubt it.

    3.  I've never tried oiling a fan before, I've just replaced them because it's been more convenient that way for me.

    4.  Depends on the type of motherboard and CPU you have.   Most CPU Fans are connected to heatsink and when you unclip the CPU fan you are unclipping both so you can try holding rotating the heatsink back forth a bit without applying any downwards preasure.

     

    Before struggling with the CPU fan, check that your power supply is set to 115V.  Maybe someone flicked the switch in the back of it and changed it to 230V.  If that's not the case, I would recommend reseating all of your AGP/PCI/PCI-E cards and memory and try booting it up again.

     

    JM 

     

    JM... Thanks for the reply.

     

    I have an AMD Athlon X2 3400+ processor, purchased in March, 2007.  You could be on to something here.  The processor will not boot if there is no CPU fan.  I am guessing it also might not boot if the processor percieves there is a subnormal CPU fan attached.

     

    I can hear a definite noise that is not normal.  Since I have eliminated (i.e. removed power from them)all know moving parts except the CPU fan, isn't it likely the fan is causing a problem?  I know the sound coming from the computer is abnormal.

     

    I checked when I was having the problem and the Power Supply is still set to 115V.  Good point. I did have that problem when I first built the system and it definitely causes the system NOT to boot.  Thanks for that suggestion.

     

    I should memtion, I do not get the beeps from the computer when it is trying to boot so something is wrong because the audibles are indicating so.

     

    I will go reseat all the items you suggested and get back in another post.  In the meantime if you have any other ideas, I am "all ears".

    Best regards,

     

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 6:14 PM
  •  ColinWH wrote:

    George,

    A few thoughts, I'm sure other people will also have suggestions as well.

    Have you checked your BIOS, some motherboards, if they have fan control, might well prevent booting if the server has had overheating problems until it is re-set. Also, if they do have fan control, it might well run at full speed, until the controller cuts in.

    If you disconnect all the disks - DVD drive etc and try to boot, can you see anything at all on the screen, if there is nothing, it could be either that one of the lines from your PSU has failed, or your motherboard has given up the ghost!

     

    Colin

     

     

    I appreciate your comments, Colin.  The BIOS might be preventing the boot.  I don't know.  The server has been running full time (except for reboots, etc.) for many months without an overheating problem as far as I know.  It may be overheating now for some new reason but I know of nothing I have added that would cause additional heat since I added a 500GB SATA drive about two months ago.  I did recently take the system down for about 5 hours when I reconfigured my office set up.  I did that about three days ago.  The system came back up and was operating as expected for at least a day after I reconfigured my office.  I came in yesterday morning and the server was down. Off the top of my head, I don't know how to reset the BIOS, but I am sure I could find out by reading my mobo documentation.

     

    When I disconnect all drives I still do not get video on the screen.  It could, therefore, be a mobo problem as you suggest.  Since I cannot see anything on the screen it is hard to test BIOS and mobo issues.  Any suggestions?

     

    I am still concerned about the odd noise I hear.  Wonder what that is coming from if it is not a defective CPU fan?

     

    Best regards,

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 6:27 PM
  • I checked to make sure the RAM was seated properly... two sticks, 512KB each for a total of 1GB memory. Each stick was seated properly.  I do not have other controller or video cards. Video is on the mobo.  IDE drives ribbon cables are seated, SATA connectins are ok.

     

    Just getting back on this as I said I would.

     

     

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 6:38 PM
  • George,

     

    I agree with Colin. Looks like the PSU or motherboard has failed. The sound you hear may come from eighter the PSU or CPU fan. Check by keeping the CPU fan from spinning (by holding it with one finger for instance) and then hitting the server powerswitch. If you hear the whining sound you know it is the PSU and replacing it will probably get your server online.

     

    If not, then it must be the CPU fan that makes the noise. Actually, I don't think then this fan is keeping your server from booting. Many BIOSes control the speed of the fan. The motherboard starts out with maximum rotation speed and when   the BIOS takes over it spins down to normal operation speed. Looks like your system doesn't even get to the BIOS.

     

    You should at least get into the BIOS. Difficult to say what is the trouble: could still be a defective PSU, so try replacing that first. If this not solves the problem:

    - could be one or more RAM-sticks that are defective (this could very well prevent the Video card from working)

    - a defective Video controller.

    - a defective CPU.

    - a defective motherboard.

    To find out I would strip the motherboard from all unnecessairy hardware (Disk drives, PCI-cards) and then try different RAM sticks, next an alternate video controller and finally the CPU. If all this fails to get to the problem it is probably your motherboard that needs replacement.

     

    Good luck!

    Theo.

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 7:49 PM
    Moderator
  • The whining noise could be the the power suply fan or CPU fan as Theo sugested but it's probably not is causing the computer not to turn on.  I would try removing all the hardware from the motherboard except the CPU and FAN. (Power switch and PC speaker are a must as well)  Try turning it on if you get any beeps.  If you still don't get any beeps try again without the CPU.  If you still don't get beeps then I agree it could be motherboard or PSU failure.  

     

    You'd have to check your motherboard manual for what the beep codes mean or lack of mean.

     

    JM

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 8:18 PM
  •  Theo van Elsberg wrote:

    George,

     

    I agree with Colin. Looks like the PSU or motherboard has failed. The sound you hear may come from eighter the PSU or CPU fan. Check by keeping the CPU fan from spinning (by holding it with one finger for instance) and then hitting the server powerswitch. If you hear the whining sound you know it is the PSU and replacing it will probably get your server online.

     

    If not, then it must be the CPU fan that makes the noise. Actually, I don't think then this fan is keeping your server from booting. Many BIOSes control the speed of the fan. The motherboard starts out with maximum rotation speed and when   the BIOS takes over it spins down to normal operation speed. Looks like your system doesn't even get to the BIOS.

     

    You should at least get into the BIOS. Difficult to say what is the trouble: could still be a defective PSU, so try replacing that first. If this not solves the problem:

    - could be one or more RAM-sticks that are defective (this could very well prevent the Video card from working)

    - a defective Video controller.

    - a defective CPU.

    - a defective motherboard.

    To find out I would strip the motherboard from all unnecessairy hardware (Disk drives, PCI-cards) and then try different RAM sticks, next an alternate video controller and finally the CPU. If all this fails to get to the problem it is probably your motherboard that needs replacement.

     

    Good luck!

    Theo.

     

    Theo,

    Good idea about holding the CPU fan. I did not think of that.  I did as you suggested and it is NOT the CPU fan.  It still makes the same noise when the CPU fan is stopped with my finger.  You certainly deserve a partial answer on that. Also I did not think of the sound coming from the PSU but it is right next to the CPU fan and the sound I am hearing could definitely be coming from the PSU.  Thanks for allowing me to discover it is NOT the CPU fan that has failed.  I will go on to the other testing as you suggested.  I will, however, not be able to do that right away as I must leave my house for several hours.  When I get back I will continue to test and debug the problem.

     

    Thank you ver much.

     

    Best regards,

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 8:20 PM
  •  jm987 wrote:

    The whining noise could be the the power suply fan or CPU fan as Theo sugested but it's probably not is causing the computer not to turn on.  I would try removing all the hardware from the motherboard except the CPU and FAN. (Power switch and PC speaker are a must as well)  Try turning it on if you get any beeps.  If you still don't get any beeps try again without the CPU.  If you still don't get beeps then I agree it could be motherboard or PSU failure.  

     

    You'd have to check your motherboard manual for what the beep codes mean or lack of mean.

     

    JM

     

    Thanks JM, for the additional testing ideas. I think we are on the right track now thanks to you guys.  I will continue testing when I return home.

     

    Thank you all for your ideas in helping me track down this problem.

     

    Best regards,

     

    Saturday, January 5, 2008 8:24 PM
  • JM, Colin and Theo,

     

    Well I think you guys have narrowed it down for me. I am fairly certain it is the PSU.  Now that I think about it, I remember plugging in a laser printer and hearing a high pitched sound.  I thought it was coming from the Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) for the server and that it was just complaining about the extra load when the printer was added and would recover once the UPS adjusted.  I bet it was the PSU failing. 

     

    Question: Could plugging in a high demand item (like a color laser printer) cause the PSU to fail?  I did not realize how PSU's fail since I have never seen a failure in one before and I have been using PCs for over 25 years.  To say the least, it is a suprise to me that the PSU would fail, but of course, it is just another electrical part so it should not suprise me.

     

    Now I will go get or order a new power supply, so I have a few quesitons. I will be adding another 750GB internal IDE to the server soon. It was ordered before the PSU failure.  Right now, including the sys drive, I have a total of 4 internal drives ( one 300GB and 1 500GB IDE drives) and 2 SATA drives (both 300GB).  The IDE drives are connected via ribbon cables (along with the DVD drive) to the mobo.  The SATA drives are also conected via SATA cables to the mobo.  I do not have any controller cards in slots.  I will be adding another IDE ribbon cable to the mobo to  attach the new 750GB drive.  That will fill my IDE connctors on the mobo.  I will eventually add one more SATA drive internally and use an existing SATA connector on the mobo, but that drive has not been orderd yet.

     

    In addition to the internal drives I have two 500GB USB drives and one 320GB USB drive connected to the mobo via USB, of course, but power for the all three external drives does not go through the mobo as these external drives are power directly.

     

    I don't expect to add controller cards to this server or other PCI attached cards.

     

    Question:  I have a 400 Watt PSU that failed.  Should I get a 600 Watt or better or is that overkill? 

     

    Question 2:  I have done a search on the net and see PSU's running from about $27 to over $60.  Is quality a factor here or should I Just go for the best price I can find?

     

    Question 3: What is the best price/quality I should expect to find for a 400W or 600W PSU?

     

    One final comment and Question.  The PSU I have now came in the Tower I bought from Newegg.  The tower is still under warranty. Because of the time factor to RMA the PSU or Tower, I will probably just go ahead and buy a PSU instead of bothering with the Newegg RMA.  Do any of you have any comments on buying the PSU seperately vs. RMAing it with Newegg?

     

    Thank you all for the time you have spent with me on this.

     

     

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 2:05 PM
  •  SeaRay33 wrote:

     

    Question: Could plugging in a high demand item (like a color laser printer) cause the PSU to fail?  I did not realize how PSU's fail since I have never seen a failure in one before and I have been using PCs for over 25 years.  To say the least, it is a suprise to me that the PSU would fail, but of course, it is just another electrical part so it should not suprise me.


    You should never plug a laser into a UPS - the load and noise some lasers put on them can kill the UPS in one go.  To be honest I have never heard of anything external killing a PSU plugged into an UPS other than the odd lightning bolt.  If the laser was on the output side it is possible a spike was transfered to the PSU.


     SeaRay33 wrote:

    Now I will go get or order a new power supply, so I have a few quesitons. I will be adding another 750GB internal IDE to the server soon. It was ordered before the PSU failure.  Right now, including the sys drive, I have a total of 4 internal drives ( one 300GB and 1 500GB IDE drives) and 2 SATA drives (both 300GB).  The IDE drives are connected via ribbon cables (along with the DVD drive) to the mobo.  The SATA drives are also conected via SATA cables to the mobo.  I do not have any controller cards in slots.  I will be adding another IDE ribbon cable to the mobo to  attach the new 750GB drive.  That will fill my IDE connctors on the mobo.  I will eventually add one more SATA drive internally and use an existing SATA connector on the mobo, but that drive has not been orderd yet.

     

    In addition to the internal drives I have two 500GB USB drives and one 320GB USB drive connected to the mobo via USB, of course, but power for the all three external drives does not go through the mobo as these external drives are power directly.

     

    I don't expect to add controller cards to this server or other PCI attached cards.

    Make sure you have the largest drive as your primary - this may mean a total rebuild but without it you will find many problems in WHS over time.


     SeaRay33 wrote:

    Question:  I have a 400 Watt PSU that failed.  Should I get a 600 Watt or better or is that overkill? 

     

    Question 2:  I have done a search on the net and see PSU's running from about $27 to over $60.  Is quality a factor here or should I Just go for the best price I can find?

     

    Question 3: What is the best price/quality I should expect to find for a 400W or 600W PSU?

     

    One final comment and Question.  The PSU I have now came in the Tower I bought from Newegg.  The tower is still under warranty. Because of the time factor to RMA the PSU or Tower, I will probably just go ahead and buy a PSU instead of bothering with the Newegg RMA.  Do any of you have any comments on buying the PSU seperately vs. RMAing it with Newegg?

     

    Thank you all for the time you have spent with me on this.

     



    1) - Go for the bigger unit - no PSU like stress and they run cooler with power to spare

    Find out the total start up power requirements by voltage of all units (inc DVD / Video card etc) as these are higher than the running level and take this figure as 75% of the required capacity.  Remember even 600W may not give you enough power on a given line - each voltage needs to be checked and the PSU must supply each voltage with the required current.


    2) - Quality does not come with cost but it can be a good indication.

    Do a google for PSU reveiws or find a mag on overclocking as those guys stress PSU beyond anything else I have seen (except for a fully laden AS/400 D70 but that was many years ago)


    3) - Akasa are around £80 for 650W in the UK and I've stressed one or two of these before with no issues.


    4) Sorry - not delt with Newegg


    Andrew

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 2:28 PM
  •  Andrew Beasley wrote:

    You should never plug a laser into a UPS - the load and noise some lasers put on them can kill the UPS in one go.  To be honest I have never heard of anything external killing a PSU plugged into an UPS other than the odd lightning bolt.  If the laser was on the output side it is possible a spike was transfered to the PSU.


     

    Good advice.  I will note that and avoid pluging the laser into the UPS in the future. Thanks.  Sometimes I do very dumb things.  Having thought about what you said, it makes perfect sense.

     Andrew Beasley wrote:

    Make sure you have the largest drive as your primary - this may mean a total rebuild but without it you will find many problems in WHS over time.

    I have to do a server reinstall of WHS when I replace my Trial version, so I will install it on the 750GB drive. Thanks.

     

     Andrew Beasley wrote:

    1) - Go for the bigger unit - no PSU like stress and they run cooler with power to spare

    Find out the total start up power requirements by voltage of all units (inc DVD / Video card etc) as these are higher than the running level and take this figure as 75% of the required capacity.  Remember even 600W may not give you enough power on a given line - each voltage needs to be checked and the PSU must supply each voltage with the required current.

    I see now that I did some really stupid things when I reconnected my office equipment in my recent office equipment reorganization.  That was proabably what took my server down. I will be more careful when I set it up after installing the new PSU. 

     

     Andrew Beasley wrote:

    3) - Akasa are around £80 for 650W in the UK and I've stressed one or two of these before with no issues.

     

    I am having trouble finding Akasa as a vendor for PSUs.  Any suggestions for the google search paramaters.

     

    Thanks for your input, Andrew.

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 3:58 PM
  • George,

    Glad your getting somewhere!

    Do you have access to another PSU prior to buying a new one, it could be worthwhile just to confirm!

    FYI, whichever PSU you try, ensure it's an 80+ model. I guess most of them are, but this site will give you the low-down.

    What sometimes happens with failed supplies, is that the output voltage drops to too low for the connected items to work, usually because of the capacitors involved not being up to it. Adding the extra drive, might just have been enough to push it over the edge.

     

    Colin

     

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 6:17 PM
  •  ColinWH wrote:

    Do you have access to another PSU prior to buying a new one, it could be worthwhile just to confirm!

    Good idea, Colin.  It will probably be pretty easy to take the PSU out of an old PC just to test to see it the PSU is, in fact, the problem.  If it does confirm the failure, I'll order a new 80+ model.  Thanks for the link to site for PSUs.

     

    Now I have some more work cut out for me

     

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 6:42 PM
  •  SeaRay33 wrote:
     ColinWH wrote:

    Do you have access to another PSU prior to buying a new one, it could be worthwhile just to confirm!

    Good idea, Colin.  It will probably be pretty easy to take the PSU out of an old PC just to test to see it the PSU is, in fact, the problem.  If it does confirm the failure, I'll order a new 80+ model.  Thanks for the link to site for PSUs.

     

    Now I have some more work cut out for me

     

     

    Well Colin, maybe my idea to use an old PSU from my old computer to confirm the PSU failure is not such a good thing afterall.  The power connectors for the dirves are fine. I would need only to connect to the Sys drive (CSmile anyway to see if I could get it to boot.  But there are two other connectors that don't match.  I will explain. Unfortantly, the old PSU is only a 200W box and there are 10 pins on the main connection to the mobo from the PSU.  The PSU that has failed on the server has an extra 4 pins... maybe because it is 400W instead of 200W?  I am sure the old 10 pin connector will connect and I am sure I can get it in the right orentation but if I just leave the 4 pins unused on the mobo I am not sure what would happen.  This is a detail that maybe you or anyone else looking a this thread might not have.  So I will not ask the obvious quesiton about leaving the 4 pins open on the mobo.  No need to respond unless of couse this is common knowledge for any one reading this.  I would not want to ask anyone to research this. I will just not try the old PSU if this is a mystery.

     

    The second connector problem is the one labeled ATX 12V in my server mobo documentation.  I have an ATX tower (the short one instead of a full sized tower) so I assume ATX is realted to that.  12V means 12 volt?  Not sure that makes sense.  The bottom line here is that the ATX 12V connection from the PSU to the mobo for my server shows a 4-pin arrangement in a square.  The wire that would connect to the 12V connector in the old 200W PSU is arranged in a linear (4 side by side pins) instead of a square configuration. So this ATX 12V connector also will not fit.  Don't know if I could just leave that one "disconnected" as well.

     

    If I hear nothing from anyone, I will abandon my plan to confirm the failure of the PSU that came with my server by using an old 200W PSU that I already have.  Instead I will just buy a new PSU and hope the problem is a failing PSU and the new one will restore my server to HAPPINESS.

     

     

    If anyone has any comments about these two connectors that don't exacltly match, I await your comments. 

     

    Again, thanks for helping to everyone,

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 8:59 PM
  •  

    SeaRay,

    I fully agree with Colin; check with an old PSU first before buying a new PSU when possible. It is the only way to confirm that it is actually the PSU that failed.

     

    Concerning one of your other questions: ones PSU failure is confirmed and you decide to order a new one I would definitely not go for the cheepest since your server in going to be online for 24/7 and reliability of the PSU is a requirement. Also when you do order a new one you might also want to check the PSU operating specifications on noise levels and maybe if it has a temperature controlled fan speed?

     

    Just one last remark: you might also want to check your UPS'es power ratings. With an underated UPS you could eventually get into other troubles. If have seen reports of unexplainable WHS disk "failures" caused by the UPS system.

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 9:30 PM
    Moderator
  • SeaRay,

    As you concluded yourself, the old PSU is not suitable. So do NOT use this one for testing!

    (Maybe converter cables exist, but I have no experience with this option so I would advise against it...)

     

    Then, in addition to my earlier reply: you could also opt for getting a cheepest PSU you can get your hands on.  You then could allways decide on buying a 'real' one later?

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 9:51 PM
    Moderator
  •  Theo van Elsberg wrote:

     

    Concerning one of your other questions: ones PSU failure is confirmed and you decide to order a new one I would definitely not go for the cheepest since your server in going to be online for 24/7 and reliability of the PSU is a requirement. Also when you do order a new one you might also want to check the PSU operating specifications on noise levels and maybe if it has a temperature controlled fan speed?

     

    Just one last remark: you might also want to check your UPS'es power ratings. With an underated UPS you could eventually get into other troubles. If have seen reports of unexplainable WHS disk "failures" caused by the UPS system.

     

    I will check the details. Looks like I will get a good education on PSUs, which would not be a bad thing.  I like to learn.

     

    Good point on the UPS rating.  Again, another thing I had not considerd.  In fact, the UPS I have now on the server does not have enougt wattage for a 600W PSU.  I will have to research UPSs and get one of those too.  Wow this server is getting more expensive by the day.  I was a beta tester for WHS so I had RC1 and about a month or two ago, I got the 120 day Trial Version of WHS.  So to use my present server I am looking at around $100 for a 650 Watt PSU, another $150 for a server level UPS and a copy of WHS at about $160.  That totals over $400 so just buying a HP MediaSmart Server which already has WHS installed and a good PSU for about $550 is looking better all the time.  I realize I will have to have the higher rated UPS even for the new HP but I could use my existing drives on the HP and have a really good, totally new server.  Boy, my wife is going to love this justification

     

    I've got some thinking to do!!

     

    Again, thanks for the help!

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 10:35 PM
  • Concerning UPSs: I found some interesting readings here: http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/ext/ups/funcOutput-c.html

     

    Sunday, January 6, 2008 10:53 PM
    Moderator
  • If you want to learn a bit about PSU's, read the article here: http://forum.ncix.com/forums/index.php?mode=showthread&forum=214&threadid=1218226&pagenumber=10&msgcount=273&subpage=1

     

    It will give you an idea of what your power consumptions are what you will need.  The differences between a cheap 500W and a good 500W PSU.

     

    My Server has 4 hard drives and runs 24X7 on a 350W power supply.  It's made by Allied and has been working properly for many years now.

     

    JM

     

     

    Monday, January 7, 2008 3:10 AM
  • Theo and JM,

    Thank you for the links on UPSs and PSUs respectively.  They both look like good sites to learn more about these devices.

     

    I am leaning toward just throwing in the towel on my present server and getting a HP MediaSmart Server.  I am a bit concerned about getting my Share Folder files onto the new server, however. I will definitely have to get the old server back up with a borrowed or inexpensive, temporary PSU to get some important files off the old server.  I guess I will just have to loose my months of backup and start building those files again with a new server.  I have all shares backed up to the on-line service, I-Drive-E but I don't look forward to moving all those files across the internet.  One of my shares that is not backed up to the on-line service because it it far to big, will have to be copied to an external drive and then back to the new server's share folder.  That will take a ton of time but at least it will be at USB 2.0 speeds.  I have some thinking to do to make sure this transfer to the new server comes off without a hitch.

     

    Monday, January 7, 2008 3:32 AM