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Demo Targeting RRS feed

  • Question

  • Ok i think we should get desscuson going on Demo Targeting, i have a few questions and i want to know if there has been any good results from those runing demographics.

    1) How does it work? does it use the infomation supplied within passports, so demo-targteing will only work for those signed into a passport account? or does it give each keyword a sex and age? e.g. "Ford Fiesta = 17 - Male"

    2) Does it work? does anyone bidding with demo's find better returns?

    Look Foward to Replys

    Alan
    Thursday, December 7, 2006 9:57 AM

Answers

  • Hello All

    adCenter's demographic targeting proposition is very simple:

    When our users sign up to an online service they are asked for their date of birth and gender as part of the Passport or Windows Live ID process.

    When they search on Live Search we look up their age and gender and if we're 100% sure we'll populate the reports you'll find in adCenter under targeting. You don't have to be using the targeting in order to get a feel for who is searching for or interacting with the type of KWs in your campaign.

    If you so choose, and I encourage you to try it out, you can boost your base bid incrementally by up to 100% for a particular group of KWs. When someone searches on that KW and adCenter identifies them as being in that target demographic because we have Passport cookied them as so, adCenter will raise your bid and in turn your ranking should increase as a result.

    Couple of things:

     - adCenter will not EXCLUDE users from the demographics you have not raised your bid on. There is only a certain percentage, albeit a significant one, of users of Live Search that we do have the information on. So if you're boosting your bid on "secured loans" to searchers aged 35+ your ad will still appear to 18-35 year olds but probably further down then page.

     - This kind of targeting has been used in our display advertising business of years to great success. Along with the "More Than" stats you've quoted above, we'll be sharing other success our advertisers have had in the early part of next year.

    Also try the Microsoft adLab Demographic Prediction Tool here: http://adlab.microsoft.com/DPUI/DPUI.aspx

    Cheers

    Mel

    adCenter Community Team

    Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:27 PM

All replies

  • From what i understand the demographics are gathered from peoples passport info and demographoc targetting is only used when msn can be sure that the correct demogrpahic is searching (eg someone signed into their passport).

    You can then set up your bids to increase when your required demographic is searching.

    eg. you could set your bid to 10p normally and then say you want it to increase 100% if the person searching is 18 and male (enabling you to sit up higher up in the rankings when your ad is being shown to someone who is in demographic you are looking to target.

    I have not looked into trying this out so would also be interested on how others have found this. Hope that helps.

    ps - in your reply to my thread you said you already knew someone had contacted me, how did you know that lol?

    Regards

    Jon

    Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:19 PM
  • Hi Jon,

    This was my belief as well, but out of msn's 40million searches a month, how many are signed into passport?

    If they are searching from WLMessenger, WLMail or Msn.com I would expect them to be in a passport account, but the general public who goes to live.com, how many of those will be signed in, my thinking? Not that many.

    But it can work, I know it can work for some, "By utilising adCenter's demographic targeting More Th>n reduced their CPA target by 76% , that isn’t my concern it is more when its used, how big the samples are and do they use those samples to predict the demographics on searches for people not signed into a passport?

    Thanks Jon, I do use demographics on some accounts, but for some of our clients I think there product ranges are just to broad to be “demographiced!” unlike with a site like yours, where it is easy to see the demographic potential.

    In response to your question, I was just chatting with someone from the community team, they mentioned your post on the forum, said someone was getting in touch with you to sort it all out.

    Now one for you, did you know that you are “tri-surfing” on one of your keywords, you have a .com advert, a Christmas advert & a .co.uk advert, I couldn’t tell if it was affiliates, but if it isn’t, is this intentional?

    Alan

    Friday, December 15, 2006 9:46 AM
  • Hi Alan,

    I would not be tri-surfing on any keywords so if there is more than one ad appearing for us then this will be affiliates of our.

    I definately think demographic targetting could be useful for us although i think this would probably be better tested when traffic levels have increased on msn. Considering the levels are not that high at the moment and as you say the percentage of people actually using passport (especially if people at work etc) is likely to be rather small and so would tests at the moment may not provide the most accurate results.

    Regards

    Jon

    Friday, December 15, 2006 11:19 AM
  • Hi Jon,

    I thought it would be, but as 2 had .co.uk domains and one was Christmas was possible, was just checking. :)

    I don’t know if more traffic would necessarily mean more passports?? Everyone that already has a passport already has access to and quite probably uses live search, its everywhere! If demographics are going to work, they should work regardless of size of traffic, should they not? The only way more traffic through live.com would help, is if they did use demographic predictions on searches, but I cant see how they can justify this without MASSIVE sample data.

    I think it could be worth you experimenting with demographics, your product range is so ripe for it, one thing I would do is run 2 order with reverse demographics to see how they convert... so for "Ferrari Driving" have one targeted to Men/Boys 17 - 30 and, one Women/Girls - 17 - 30 as they are gifts I would expect peoples partners to buy more, but I am sure you have lots of data on this. It could be very interesting to see how conversions on the reverse demographics pan out,
    (** looks to find a client in the experiences industry for testing **),LOL!

    I don’t think my theory would work to well for spa days but I can imagine high conversions from women aged 30 - 60 on golf days! But my only concern is how many 60 year old women have a .net passport in order to gather such data??

    Let me know your thoughts.

    Thanks,
    Alan

    Friday, December 15, 2006 12:26 PM
  • Hi Alan, 

    "But my only concern is how many 60 year old women have a .net passport in order to gather such data??"

    A very good point, I may be wrong but i would expect the majority of passport users would probably be in the lower age brackets (messenger, hotmail sign ups etc).

    "Everyone that already has a passport already has access to and quite probably uses live search, its everywhere! If demographics are going to workEveryone that already has a passport already has access to and quite probably uses live search, its everywhere! If demographics are going to work"

    I can see your point here although i am not sure that i agree with the statement that everyone who already has passport is probably using it. I have a passport from sigining up with messenger some years ago still use google as my preferred search eninge. Although a lot of people use messenger Google has dominated search for quite some years and so expect there will still be alot of passport users who use google as their primary search engine. No doubt MSN will be working heard to try and encourage users to use live search and increase traffic levels. This in turn should increase the numbers of people aho have passports and with a larger sample size the test results will be more accurate.

    Regards

    Jon

    Friday, December 15, 2006 12:57 PM
  • “A very good point, I may be wrong but i would expect the majority of passport users would probably be in the lower age brackets (messenger, hotmail sign ups etc).

    I fully agree I think the average age of a passport user will be around the 18 - 25 mark, another reason i prey they dont extend demographics to non passport users!

    “I can see your point here although i am not sure that i agree with the statement that everyone who already has passport is probably using it. I have a passport from sigining up with messenger some years ago still use google as my preferred search eninge.”

    Ok, I think I agree, I have many passport accounts and Google is my used search engine by a very long way. However I don’t think a larger audience will affect your demographic results, while one assumes demographics are under constant review I have to believe that they are not update in real time as such it will be a while before these demographics change! I don’t know, something in me just says these demographics wont be moving anytime soon so shouldn’t affect your results, but maybe I am just bias as I would love to see the results of my theory, lol!

    I think we need some more information on just how demographics work, Mel you said you had all the answers, maybe now is a good time for you pitch in??

    Alan

    Friday, December 15, 2006 1:37 PM
  • "i prey they dont extend demographics to non passport users!"

    Agreed although i think it is unlikely that they would extend to non passport users as they would not have anyway to verify to advertisers how they are determining the users demographic and from the impressions i have got MSN are trying to keep a goo dlevel of transparency with the system and how it works. One of main areas that MSN appear to be focussing on is the levels of ROI they can provide and the relevancy of the system - i think they would find it very hard to persuade advertisers that extending demographics to non passport users could help improve relevancy. If anything i expect MSN would probably focus more on encouraging additional users to sign up to passport rather than trying to find a way to use demogrpahics without them (in my opinion this would be the more sensible and easiest option to increase demogrpahics whilst maintaining the same targetting accuracy.

    "I think we need some more information on just how demographics work, Mel you said you had all the answers, maybe now is a good time for you pitch in??"

    Yes would certainly be good to clarify how the demogrpahics are updated etc, presuambly if they have passport info to hand they would have the option to have these constantly updating but would be good ti find out?

    Regards

    Jon

    Friday, December 15, 2006 1:59 PM
  • Hello All

    adCenter's demographic targeting proposition is very simple:

    When our users sign up to an online service they are asked for their date of birth and gender as part of the Passport or Windows Live ID process.

    When they search on Live Search we look up their age and gender and if we're 100% sure we'll populate the reports you'll find in adCenter under targeting. You don't have to be using the targeting in order to get a feel for who is searching for or interacting with the type of KWs in your campaign.

    If you so choose, and I encourage you to try it out, you can boost your base bid incrementally by up to 100% for a particular group of KWs. When someone searches on that KW and adCenter identifies them as being in that target demographic because we have Passport cookied them as so, adCenter will raise your bid and in turn your ranking should increase as a result.

    Couple of things:

     - adCenter will not EXCLUDE users from the demographics you have not raised your bid on. There is only a certain percentage, albeit a significant one, of users of Live Search that we do have the information on. So if you're boosting your bid on "secured loans" to searchers aged 35+ your ad will still appear to 18-35 year olds but probably further down then page.

     - This kind of targeting has been used in our display advertising business of years to great success. Along with the "More Than" stats you've quoted above, we'll be sharing other success our advertisers have had in the early part of next year.

    Also try the Microsoft adLab Demographic Prediction Tool here: http://adlab.microsoft.com/DPUI/DPUI.aspx

    Cheers

    Mel

    adCenter Community Team

    Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:27 PM