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Diskeeper messed up key system and OneCare files RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • Stephen,

     

    If you see this, kindly pass this on to the OneCare team, as it may help them in the future.

     

    Recently, I had performance problems with my computer, thinking Windows Vista 64, was the trouble I removed it and went back to WindowsXP. While on WindowsXP, I noticed performance problems, did some digging on my my two secondary harddrives, using a program I have, to check the master file tables, and I discovered that something had shrunk the master file tables down to the point I was having performance problems accessing files and directories.

    I backed the data up on those two drives, and reformatted them. It wasn't until after I reformatted those drives, that I found the primary cause for my harddrive performance problems, and had shrunk the master file tables on two of my harddrives. The program that caused this for me was the third party defrag program Diskeeper Pro Premiere from Diskeeper Corporation aka Executive Software. I ran in to this years ago, when ATA 100 and ATA 133 controllers, were still being used heavily, but didn't realize what it was, and blamed the drive, thinking it was getting ready to fail.

    I removed Diskeeper completely and totally from my system, and the harddrive performance problems went away. I recently reinstalled Windows Vista 64, as I purchased 8GB's of ram for my system. After I got Vista 64 reinstalled, along with the Service Pack, I did not install Diskeeper. I'm not impressed with 3rd party defrag programs anymore.

     

    Since reinstalling Vista 64, the mess with odd performance problems, harddrive performance problems, and the problem with Live OneCare always turning System Restore back on, went away. The problem with System Restore, for some reason happens on Windows XP only. I have reason to believe on XP, that Diskeeper, messed up some files concerning System Restore and Live OneCare on XP, but can't really prove it. I don't trust Diskeeper anymore to risk reinstalling it on my system again, and run the risk of messing up Vista 64 system files, along with OneCare files.

     

    The Vista 64 defrag utility actually works better than I thought it would.

     

    Saturday, June 14, 2008 3:48 AM

All replies

  • Thanks for sharing this information.

    -steve

     

    Monday, June 16, 2008 6:35 PM
    Moderator
  • You're welcome.

     

    Ever since this mess I discovered with Diskeeper, I've lost faith in 3rd party defrag programs, like you wouldn't believe.

     

    I've got OneCare set to do a TuneUp, once a week, as with the NTFS file system, that's all you really need is a defrag once a week. I've learned since, that an NTFS formatted drive doesn't fragment like a FAT32 formatter drive will, on a daily basis.

     

    I personally will never use a 3rd party defrag program ever again. I've also added 8GB's of ram to my system, and have noticed that Vista 64 and OneCare actually get along better on that much ram, though they got along good on 4GB's of ram.

     

    Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:43 AM
  •  

    That's quite strange. To the best of my knowledge, the MFT cannot be shrunk by any third party program, including Diskeeper. The fragshield feature of Diskeeper can only proactively enlarge the MFT to prevent it's fragmentation. FWIW, I have been using Diskeeper (currently 2008 pro) on both XP and Vista 32-bit systems and it's been doing a good job without any problems. Do note that with Vista and SP1, you need to use the latest build of DK (781).

     

    Have you tried contacting Diskeeper tech support? What did they say?

    Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:07 PM
  • I'm not about to take the risk of putting Diskeeper back on my system, I know what's going to happen sooner rather than later, I'm going to wind up with a host of performance problems, including slow access to directories, ie directories that take longer to display their content, than what they do now. I'm not in the mood to use AHCI mode, as it doesn't give me any true performance boost either.

     

    I also won't be contacting Diskeeper either, I'm voting with my pocketbook. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. I've seen the MFT suddenly shrink many times thanks to Diskeeper, over the past 12 years of using Diskeeper, and the fact remains there was nothing wrong with the harddrives at all.

     

     

    Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:49 PM
  •  

    A simple google search would have yielded this information

     

    http://www.diskeeperblog.com/archives/2006/11/the_mystery_of.html

    As more files are added to an NTFS volume, additional records are created within the MFT to define those files. As files are deleted from a volume the space they occupied in the Master File Table (the file's former record) is marked as available for use, but it is not deleted. Unlike some tools designed for databases or virtual disks, there is no tool or native action to shrink the MFT down to only the actual "in use" records. In essence this means the MFT can grow but will never shrink.

     

    The same info can be found on the MS technet site.

     

    Also, this seems to be what you are experiencing: 

     

    Many users, possibly well familiar with Windows 2000 or adroitly attuned to XP over a period time, notice that the reserved space on XP volumes shrinks or disappears from views in a Diskeeper analysis (or that of the built-in defragmenter). While almost all note it has not affected their performance (it would not) there is understandably a concern as this is a change from what they are familiar with.

    As empirical evidence presented by these users would suggest, it is not a performance issue, and is perfectly normal.

     

    I am curious as to how you managed to notice the MFT shrinking over the past 12 years, yet thought nothing of it until now. Did you keep track of the size changes? What tool did you use?

    Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:28 PM
  • I am having similar issues myself. Were you experiences frequent system hangs? It is driving me crazy...I suspected Diskeeper as the problem and thought I unistalled all of it. However, the hangs are continuing and I just received a "reminder" that my trial of Diskeeper was ending soon.....wouldn't that nofication NOT appear if all parts of Diskeeper were gone? What did I miss?

     

    Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:20 PM
  •  dholman472 wrote:
    I am having similar issues myself. Were you experiences frequent system hangs? It is driving me crazy...I suspected Diskeeper as the problem and thought I unistalled all of it. However, the hangs are continuing and I just received a "reminder" that my trial of Diskeeper was ending soon.....wouldn't that nofication NOT appear if all parts of Diskeeper were gone? What did I miss?

     

    This forum is for Windows Live OneCare. You might be better off seeking help from Diskeeper support:

    http://support.diskeeper.com/support/supportroute.aspx?RId=1&SId=5&CId=1&Aeid=1&Apid=1

    -steve

    Friday, July 4, 2008 1:08 AM
    Moderator