Real life stories - the consequences of certification cheating and piracy RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • Microsoft Learning has typically dealt with certification cheating and piracy privately in the past. Now we have started a new column called 'What wrere they thinking?!' with real life stories on the consequences of certification cheating and piracy http://bit.ly/ae6Id2


    Ben Watson
    Director, Training Products
    Microsoft Learning

    Wednesday, September 8, 2010 1:26 AM

All replies

  • Good stories! Value of real knowledge should continuously be maintained against violations like those.
    MCITP: EMA 2007/2010 | MCSA | Blog http://ehlo.me
    Thursday, October 7, 2010 5:48 PM
  • Hi Ben,


    Great stories. Thank you for putting this in its parent page in Forums.

    Sachin Shetty| MCP|MCT|MCTS|MCITP| http://sachinshetty.design.officelive.com Please remember to mark the replies as answers and Vote as helpful if they help and unmark them if they provide no help.Thank you in advance.
    Saturday, October 9, 2010 12:14 AM
  • this is great

    I still remember there was a guy who worked with me, he's a MCSE but he doens't even know what IPCONFIG is

    I wonder how he got his certification...

    Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:16 AM
  •  When I first got into IT over 8 years ago I heard nothing but talk about paper MCSE's and brain dumps being illegal blah  blah  blah...

     Now the largest technical training centers use brain dumps so they can gaurantee their clients will pass the exam. Funny how they are going after 1 person here.

    So selling the test is wrong, but using real test questions for a training center/Microsoft partner mind you, is ok? I dont get it. Certs are dead as Ted anyway, not sure anyone gives a rats ____ anymore.

    Wednesday, October 13, 2010 1:49 PM
  • Sounds like most IT managers at Microsoft. lol so sad ( we are not in telecom , that's the networking team man )
    Wednesday, October 13, 2010 1:50 PM

    companies also cheat.  I knew a company just 1 guy MCSA and the company is a Gold partner.  how???... easy ....they hire people by  the internet and invite then to associate their crediantial and that´s.

    Thursday, October 14, 2010 11:33 AM
  • While I am not the biggest Microsoft fan, I do believe that they are preparing themselves for a much needed out and to begin going the way of Red Hat and that is anything above the Technician level requires some sort of practicum.   How? these new MTA's are designed primarily for students to certify that they were attentive in class or that they took the time to learn the true fundamentals of computing on their own.  This actually lends itself to a great opportunity. Hiring managers who just want to know that they're hiring someone that is not a total Noob can simply use a combination of this and the CompTIA exams to say -- Ok, this kid's foundation is solid and probably can handle the basics with little to no guidance.  

    Next, a person looking to hire someone as a DBA and BI Developer of a production cluster for a department might opt for an MCITP & MCDBA with say 5-7 years experience, with some reporting background.  This person's exams might be upgraded to those simulets -- similar to what Cisco uses.  You wouldn't need a lot,  say 5-10 and the rest would be the normal questions.  This begins to push the envelope a little more so as to ensure understanding that only a do the steps can identify.

    Finally, a guy looking for a SharePoint Architect will want a SharePoint MCM with some outside development experience, at least 3 years in that roll, some serious Search and Portal Design Chops, good DBA understanding and possibly some Virtualization and SAN Knowledge/experience.  At this point, since you've already taken 4 or more exams, what's a short Full blown lab going to hurt?  I mean if you're MCM, building it to specs shouldn't be a real difficult thing, provided the request is reasonable and covers the demonstration of the primary & secondary objectives of the certification. 

    As for the guy that says certifications don't many anything, I would disagree greatly, but with a caveat.  That caveat is this:  Job skills and credentials of all kinds have rising and falling demand, just like the stock market.  10 years ago, certifications were hot for a good while.  By 2006-2007, they had lost a good deal of their fizzle.  Now that new technologies are on the horizon from nearly every hardware and software vendor alike and the very paradigm of how computing is executed has changed, it would be foolish to think that certifications are not back in vogue, especially in this economy.  While my personal preference is VMware, Ubuntu, and Python, I cannot ignore Hyper-V, Azure, OCS, and SharePoint as disruptive technologies the stand a chance to ensure the Microsoft remains the top dog in the software space -- possibly forever.   Those very same technologies make me proud to have chosen to become a Microsoft Partner. And those factors are why all the solutions I sell in the future will be based around weaving all of those technologies together to meet my customers needs.  And it is Why I will be getting Certified on every last one of those platforms -- and I mean every last one of them -- the legitimate and honorable way.

    1st up, Azure Design and Dev Beta and SharePoint~!

    Friday, October 15, 2010 2:31 AM
  • Definitely Certification is the grand finale of training, be it Microsoft certifications such as MCITP, MCSA, MCSE or even just an MCP, or Cisco certifications such as CCNA , or even red hat certifications such as RHCE and RHCE.


    Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:57 AM
  • The Chinese guy with the cell phone should have said "Talk to the Hand!".  Oh, wait a minute......
    Wednesday, October 27, 2010 4:35 PM
  • I have been certified since NT4, and continued right through 2008, I also hold Apple, Comp Tia, and Cisco certifications. In January I am taking my CISSP. I agree the value of some certifications is questionable, but just like anything ...a college degree even, either you take it seriously and learn the material and be great at what you do, or you fake your way through are bad at what you do and don't get promotions etc. My challenge to those who work in my industry that think certs are meaningless is if they are so easy to get why don't you get yours. To me it's laziness or fear. Certificates prove you have base knowledge, they do not prove you are great at what you do, but they certainly give you a base of knowledge to begin your career. Personally when I post for a job I won't even call people without certs for an interview, it's my first reduction criteria, then when I interview the certified folks they have to pass my test.



    Friday, October 29, 2010 12:25 PM
  • Cheaters can certainly devalues a certification and can also make getting it even harder since "everyone" is passing it. Cisco's CCNA just keep getting harder and harder. I know because I failed mines recently even though I got the highest score in my training while all those that had test paper and answers easily past them in 1 third the time.

    What worse is I often get offers to see the test questions/answers which I constantly refused because cheating is only cheating myself. Luckily my boss at work in fact even praised my stubborness to cheat even though I failed, being top 1 in the training, he finally sees how certification alone is not a clear indicator of knowledge. It's sad when someone gets a CCNA by finishing a test in 15 minutes. It's impossible if you haven't cheated. I'm still often the one to go to for subnetting and networking questions even with my lack of CCNA, even by cheaters.

    What's more important, having a certification and know nothing or know your stuff but no certification?

    I am worried that the MCTS will be the same as latest CCNA where you get little time for each question and expects you to actually know the question before hand to save time but there's one thing I'm glad and that is action taken against cheating.

    Monday, November 8, 2010 10:48 AM
  • "I still remember there was a guy who worked with me, he's a MCSE but he doens't even know what IPCONFIG is"

    Often this arises through the use of 'cram and dump' memorization techniques rather than actual cheating. The info is force-memorized and then (purposefully?) forgotten soon after the exam.

    Some years back I used to run a training course, which was a mix of theory and hands-on faultfinding.

    Some students insisted on spending all their time memorizing the textbooks instead of doing the practical exercises. One or two even tried to do this by writing-out the textbook by hand, over and over again, in an attempt to memorize it word for word.

    Not surprisingly, these students almost invariably failed the practical test at the end of the course. The really interesting thing, though, was that in the written course-completion test, there were far more failures among those who'd spent all their time trying to memorize the textbook than among those who'd done the hands-on work.

    Working in the real IT industry these days, no-one can possibly memorize everything needed to do their job. For instance I wouldn't even begin to try to memorize the syntax for every function in a modern language. But, I know where to find that info quickly and efficiently if I need it. What is more important than memorization by-rote is whether a worker understands the means of finding-out the information they need, or not.


    Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:40 AM
  • Lol.

    Why is many people in MS organization still today in year 2010 using NorthWind db as demo in different project?

    I mean.... Try to build a large system around a big SQL db that are build like NorhWind = Bomb


    For example:

    Many is spending time to take SQL Cert for developer but they don`t want to spend one minute to learn:   




    Yesterday i was discover this: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/gerryo/archive/2010/10/13/windows-azure-beta-exam-announcement.aspx

    Windows Azure Beta Exam Announcement      Free BETA? Lol............


    Please send the cert people to Guantanamo





    Thursday, November 25, 2010 2:08 PM
  • Maybe the problem is that you can read the ms press exam book, some 3th party books, some on the job experience, watch cbt nuggets & trainsignal and still get questions that were not covered in these exam prep content. Or you get question that are plain irrelevant and outdated. Didn't have this feel/problem with cisco exams.

    Tuesday, November 30, 2010 8:46 AM