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  • Well aware, and thank you very much for your feedback.
    Friday, August 11, 2006 4:28 PM

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  • Well aware, and thank you very much for your feedback.
    Friday, August 11, 2006 4:28 PM
  • Users of Microsoft genuine software have little issues, if any, with Product Activation or authenticating their software license with Windows Genuine Advantage.
    Sunday, August 13, 2006 4:51 PM
    Moderator
  • Carey wrote: "Users of Microsoft genuine software have little issues, if any, with Product Activation or authenticating their software license with Windows Genuine Advantage."

    That's a bald-faced lie. 

    I was buying Microsoft genuine software long before you were out of diapers and have ~never~ pirated or illegally installed any product, but I have BIG issues with WGA spyware.

    Consider this:

    1. I pay the money for a legit product from a legitimate reseller; it may be either a computer or a software package;
    2. The product has the appropriate security features, including tags, stickers, hologram, etc.;
    3. Any provided CDs have the appropriate security features;
    4. Upon installation the product requires me to provide a legitimate product ID and/or other validating information
    5. I've used the system and or software gazillions of times, including periodic updates from the Microsoft site.
    6. I've used my MS Passport to log onto the support sites and have filed support requests which have been validated to be concerning appropriately licensed products

    And, now, MS wants ME to think that yet another layer of "verification" is the real answer to what has been lacking all along? 

    The reports from legitimate investigators and reporters, such as Slashdot and ZDNet are not only on-target, they are dead right.

    rb
    Monday, August 14, 2006 3:57 PM
  • Thank you for your comments.  I'll assume your genuine copy of Windows XP is running fine and you have no technical issues with WGA itself.
    Monday, August 14, 2006 5:27 PM
    Moderator
  • If you are having a problem with WGA, then help us help you by providing some diagnostic information.

    Please follow this diagnostic troubleshooting procedure:

    1. Download and run the MGA Diagnostic Tool: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012

    2. After running the MGA Diagnostic Tool, click on the "Windows" tab and then click on "Copy to Clipboard".

    3. Next, visit the following website and create a post in the "WGA Validation Problems" forum and paste the results of the WGA Diagnostic Data in a detailed post. http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/default.aspx?SiteID=25

    4. A WGA troubleshooting specialist will analyze the data and recommend an appropriate solution.

    Monday, August 14, 2006 9:58 PM
    Moderator
  • R.B.P.

     

    Personal attacks will not be tolerated, no matter who said them and who the target is.

     

    I have deleted your threads. This is your only warning.

    Monday, August 14, 2006 11:59 PM
  • Phil...

    I don't have a problem with you moderating the forum, but you said my posts were a personal attack.  Now, that's a surprise. 

    Whom did I attack and in what way did I do so?  I just asked Carey (not a Microsoft employee, but a volunteer) to explain WHY there must be a workaround for a legit sale, a legit install and a legit use, for crying out loud.  As a Microsoft user for many years and stockholder for about 15 years, why would I not have a right to speak the truth or to question the very people who may be denigrating the value of my investments?

    Where's the attack in that?

    In any case, thanks for your note.

    rb
    Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:26 AM
  • Dear R.P.B. -

    If I were a medical doctor, and you came to me with a complaint of not feeling well, and I suggested a certain diagnostic procedure to help determine what is actually causing your illness, and you refused, there would be no reason for further discussion.

    Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:42 AM
    Moderator
  • Carey,

    If you were a doctor and I came to you with a headache and you recommended I have a lobotomy, there would indeed be no reason for further discussion.  Especially if you kept repeating yourself like an automaton.  

    Look, this isn't too hard to understand:  People with genuine copies of Windows (paid for with receipts) are getting false messages.  This seems to be ok with MS.  As a matter of fact the clear suggestion is that these Windows users are liars and thieves.  That's just not very nice at all. 

    ***

    Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:25 AM
  • P612,

    If a legitimate installation of XP is throwing a "false positive" WGA Notification, MS really wants to know about it, research it, and fix it not only for you but for others as well.

    It's too bad you didn't give the MS staff an opportunity to learn and grow from the situation on your computer.  It's too bad your posts didn't include more detail and a diagnostic report (and less ranting).  From reading the posts here, it seems to me that when a legitimate installation fails WGA or gets what could be a false positive, it usually ends up that there is something wrong with that installation.  So by taking the band-aid approach, you'll never find out what's wrong under the hood with your installation.

    Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:39 AM
  •  P612 wrote:

    Carey,

    If you were a doctor and I came to you with a headache and you recommended I have a lobotomy, there would indeed be no reason for further discussion.  Especially if you kept repeating yourself like an automaton.  

    Look, this isn't too hard to understand:  People with genuine copies of Windows (paid for with receipts) are getting false messages.  This seems to be ok with MS.  As a matter of fact the clear suggestion is that these Windows users are liars and thieves.  That's just not very nice at all. 

    ***

    If you are having a problem with WGA, then help us help you by providing some diagnostic information.

    Please follow this diagnostic troubleshooting procedure:

    1. Download and run the MGA Diagnostic Tool: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012

    2. After running the MGA Diagnostic Tool, click on the "Windows" tab and then click on "Copy to Clipboard".

    3. Next, visit the following website and create a post in the "WGA Validation Problems" forum and paste the results of the WGA Diagnostic Data in a detailed post. http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/default.aspx?SiteID=25

    4. A WGA troubleshooting specialist will analyze the data and recommend an appropriate solution.

    Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:09 AM
    Moderator
  • Dear Dan,

    Rest assured I've been in touch with MS Online support, have established an incident number and they have a copy of my diagnostic report to "learn and grow" from. 

    This was indeed a false positive.  I've been assured of this by Dell Tech support.  I've spoken to their top brass and they will contact MS soon to establish a fix.  I think MS (and perhaps Dell and other OEM resellers) should be gracious, accept responsibility and issue an apology with an assurance that such methods will never again be used in the future.  Disappointing as well because lately I've been feeling pretty good about doing business with a company that is so dedicated to worldwide philanthropic efforts.

    The method I outlined above for removing the WGA notification Spyware (KB905474) worked well and all Windows users should have it in their skill set for removel of any and all spyware installs.   It is not a "band-aid". (Althought I do recommend that others who try it proceed with caution and perhaps under the supervision of an experienced tech person.)  I am disappointed that the moderator of this forum has chosen to censor it.

    As for my ranting, a little bit of good natured irreverence is healthy.   Surely MS can handle it.

    P612

    (Psst...Carey's not an employee of MS cos he's mostly a script right?)

    Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:28 PM
  •  P612 wrote:

    Dear Dan,

    This was indeed a false positive.  I've been assured of this by Dell Tech support.  I've spoken to their top brass and they will contact MS soon to establish a fix.  I think MS (and perhaps Dell and other OEM resellers) should be gracious, accept responsibility and issue an apology with an assurance that such methods will never again be used in the future.  Disappointing as well because lately I've been feeling pretty good about doing business with a company that is so dedicated to worldwide philanthropic efforts.

    P612

     

    We have been working with head of Dell Support organization on identifying issues.

     

    Please run the diagnostics tool to see if it really is a "false positive" (due to varying definitions, its hard to really determine what is what).

     

    -phil

    Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:40 PM
  •  P612 wrote:

    Look, this isn't too hard to understand:  People with genuine copies of Windows (paid for with receipts) are getting false messages.  This seems to be ok with MS.  As a matter of fact the clear suggestion is that these Windows users are liars and thieves.  That's just not very nice at all. 

     

    Just because they have a receipt does not mean it is a genuine copy of Windows.

     

    Please note, we are not calling these consumers "thieves" or "liars". However, they may be victims of "thieves" or "liars".

     

    -phil

    Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:42 PM
  •  P612 wrote:

    >snip<

    I am disappointed that the moderator of this forum has chosen to censor it.

    >snip<

    But hardly surprising.  Why go to the trouble of creating a "nag" program and then provide a method (or allow such methods to be posted) of disabling it?

    Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:53 PM
  •  P612 wrote:

    >snip<

    I am disappointed that the moderator of this forum has chosen to censor it.

     

    You should directly link the KB article.

     

    -phil

    Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:23 PM
  • > Please note, we are not calling these consumers "thieves" or "liars". However, they may be victims of "thieves" or "liars".

    Technically true, but ...

    The hapless end-users are the ones that first find Microsoft's accusatory finger pointing at them.  Can't blame them for feeling name-called.

    Monday, August 21, 2006 5:33 PM
  • Phil...

    I've purposely not responded to your quite imprecise statement, to wit, "...we are not calling these consumers 'thieves' or 'liars'."  Until, that is, another replied (something for which I devoutly prayed).  Yes, Phil, you--or to be more precise--WGA and/or any other similar device to ferret out the pirates and unlicensed users, and which functions at such a defective level at WGA--I say, yes these devices and everyone connected to their enforcement, ARE calling these consumers "thieves" and "liars".

    If anyone thinks that because I have come down hard on WGA, I must not be angry at the millions of pirates and unlicensed users who devalue my investment in Microsoft, you would be sadly mistaken.  It chaps my hide, but what hurts even more, is that WGA is now an ~active participant~ in the alienation of hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands and maybe even millions of people who have paid good money for licensed Microsoft products (and by that have contributed to my dividend checks, for which I am grateful). 

    What you and, apparently, others fail to realize is that these legit users are made to doubt, not only their own licenses (having to endure the insults of nag screens and insinuations), but also the OEM systems manufacturers (against which WGA false-positives are a HUGE headache--I also own Apple and HP stock, and I've already received one letter from HP trying to explain the mess, placing the entire blame on Microsoft), the entire support industry (which cannot seem to perform a legit upgrade or reinstall without triggering WGA false-positives), and even Microsoft itself (which also suffers false positives from installations of product purchased directly from Microsoft), simply because NOBODY has yet produced the fail-safe way to ferret out the bad guys.
    Tuesday, August 22, 2006 12:49 AM
  • R.P.B.

    In order to clear up some confusion, allow me to elaborate. I definitely believe in the purpose of this program, and my main function actually isn't to provide support, but its to get field feedback in order to better our product. We're wanting to design it to be as transparent as possible - this means the public knows what exactly what validation is, and the user doesn't get interrupted when validating.

     r.p.b. wrote:
    Phil...

    I've purposely not responded to your quite imprecise statement, to wit, "...we are not calling these consumers 'thieves' or 'liars'."  Until, that is, another replied (something for which I devoutly prayed).  Yes, Phil, you--or to be more precise--WGA and/or any other similar device to ferret out the pirates and unlicensed users, and which functions at such a defective level at WGA--I say, yes these devices and everyone connected to their enforcement, ARE calling these consumers "thieves" and "liars".

    The messaging has been that users of counterfeit software are victims of software piracy - though we never directly call users "pirates", "thieves" or "liars" - for some reason its understood that way. The messaging has gone through countless revisions, however, it still needs work. It's misinterpreted currently. Our messaging is changing, trust me on that.

     r.p.b. wrote:

    If anyone thinks that because I have come down hard on WGA, I must not be angry at the millions of pirates and unlicensed users who devalue my investment in Microsoft, you would be sadly mistaken.  It chaps my hide, but what hurts even more, is that WGA is now an ~active participant~ in the alienation of hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands and maybe even millions of people who have paid good money for licensed Microsoft products (and by that have contributed to my dividend checks, for which I am grateful). 

    No, I don't think you've come down hard on WGA. We're not here to alienate users in any sense. We have been designing, and are still designing updates to be as transparent as possible (users know what we're doing, yet we do not interfere with users of Genuine Microsoft software). The purpose of the forum is to get as much meaningful feedback as possible.

     r.p.b. wrote:

    What you and, apparently, others fail to realize is that these legit users are made to doubt, not only their own licenses (having to endure the insults of nag screens and insinuations), but also the OEM systems manufacturers (against which WGA false-positives are a HUGE headache--I also own Apple and HP stock, and I've already received one letter from HP trying to explain the mess, placing the entire blame on Microsoft), the entire support industry (which cannot seem to perform a legit upgrade or reinstall without triggering WGA false-positives), and even Microsoft itself (which also suffers false positives from installations of product purchased directly from Microsoft), simply because NOBODY has yet produced the fail-safe way to ferret out the bad guys.

    The definition of "False-Positive" certainly varies depending on who you speak to. In order to fully comment, there's got to be one clear definition. Are users, who are using a blocked Volume License unknowingly (because a "repair shop" did it) considered false positive?  No, they are correctly identified as using non-Genuine software. We're not saying they do not own a genuine license (they may, or may not) - but rather, the license currently in use is not genuine. Do we provide avenue for checking their COA keys to see if it matches their current installation? Yep! We even provide tooling that can "switch" product keys without a reinstallation.

    What about the users who purchased non-genuine Windows for 5$ at a computer-expo (unknowingly)? Still, they have already accrued the value of using Microsoft software for probably several years. Is the seller responsible for the mess? You bet! Thats why we have counterfeit reports - so our legal team can investigate. Is the buyer responsible for the mess? Somewhat as well - a hand-copied CD is one extreme side where its very obvious. However, high quality counterfeits (we have some that are very, very good) is the other extreme side, where the user cannot simply tell - we also provide an avenue for this with free WGA Kits, provided they can submit evidence it was purchased under good intentions.

    I hope this clarifies some issues. I do know the press reads this. I only wish they reported on the several hundred users that we've helped out over the last few months.

     

    Thank you for your continued feedback, and for keeping a cool head. Our team responds best when there's clear and concise reasoning.

    -phil

    Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:43 AM
  • Phil...

    Thank you for a reasoned and responsible reply to my concerns, not only as a user, but also (and perhaps even more importantly) as a Microsoft / HP / Apple investor. 

    I have to tell you, my intention to jump ship to Apple's MacOS on the desktop remains unchallenged (I'm already there on my notebook), if only to escape the headaches of this kind of fiasco. As a investor in both MS and Apple, I hope others don't follow my intent, but sure do hope they do.

    Go figure.

    rpb
    Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:14 AM
  • I have a genuine copy of XP and Office, however...in my limited experience WGA has a 100% failure rate and I now face the possibility of a clean wipe of all my hard drives.
    If there is someone out there who has a success story, great...but for me that is no consolation.
    Saturday, November 4, 2006 6:48 AM
  • >> Users of Microsoft genuine software have little issues, if any, with Product Activation or authenticating their software license with Windows Genuine Advantage.<<

    The software imposes it's own will attempting to frequently phone home to microsoft.com and/or to it's disclosed/undisclosed partners.    

    Some of us had lots of problems - not just from the doubling of our intruder logs.

    Bottom line is loss of trust - that may directly impact our decision to upgrade to Vista or aggressively seek Unix solutions for our base of Windows only software.

     

     

     

    Sunday, November 12, 2006 1:52 PM
  • Please define "lots of problems".  Resourceful users visit this WGA troubleshooting forum for advice to correct their WGA issues. 
    Sunday, November 12, 2006 3:14 PM
    Moderator