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ich10r SATA driver issues RRS feed

  • Question

  • Recently built a new computer to use with WHS. I am using a Gigabyte EP45-UD3P motherboard and I am trying to use the intel ich10r SATA controller for the system drives. At this point I only have the system drives installed. During the install I provide the ich10r driver via floppy, WHS install seems to like it for a minute, but then responds with "The provided driver cannot be used to complete setup, the driver files were not found." I have tried the floppy drivers from both the motherboard manufactuer and intel directly with the same results. The install allows me to continue, but later at the F6 prompt it will bomb out.

    Notice that I say system DRIVES. I am trying to take advantage of the ich10r's ability to do RAID 1 for the system drive. Please don't scold me. I have read a lot  about this issue. My understanding is that the system drive or partition is the one area that is not duplicated. I would like to minimize future heartburn with reinstalls and the wife saying "you spent all that on this thing and it doesn't work!" when she wants to watch something. You guys know this pressure!

    I will try ACHI with just one drive installed, and see how it goes. If it works I am not sure I want to keep it there though. I just thought that there might be someone here with more experience than me. Anybody wrestle with this before?
    Friday, October 16, 2009 4:32 PM

Answers

  • Ken, earlier I responded to your post somewhat harshly. I hope that you understand that my fustration was directed at MS and not you personanly.

    In the hope that one day someone with the power to fix it will read it I will reiterate my fustration. Going from memory, back in the day when Windows 95 came out MS realized that  support for USB would probably be a good idea so they updated 95 and created a Windows 95b that included it. That is what I am talking about. WHS needs a WHSb. I really do understand Ken's explanation but I have no sympathy for internal company politics preventing progress. My belief is that WHS should have all the modern drivers to play ball in 2009. Period. I will now get off this soap box.

    Now, on to some good news. It's working! Yes, its working in SATA mode and above that in RAID 1! All this time I have felt that the ich10r would be a far more developed chipset than the jmicron that is also included on the board. Because of this, I had shunned the jmicron. When all avanues were exhausted (except IDE mode) I figured the jmicron was worth a shot. I used the floppy drivers from the motherboard CD and followed the motherboard manual and set it up with raid 1. Aside from holding my breath a really long time, everything went along fine. In comparison to all I have done recently it was ridiculously easy.

    Now your going to ask: you gonna trust your data to jmicron? But really what is there to loose? With 1 system drive if it fails, I install a new drive and reinstall. Now (with a RAID 1 system drive) I hope that if a drive fails I just replace the failed drive and keep going. But a worse case scenario would be that I am unable to rebuild the array. What happens then? Well, I replace the failed drive and reinstall. All my other data is trusted to WHS. It doesn't seem to be too bad of an arrangement to me.

    BTW, I should now be able to install the ich10r drivers (the big variety that don't fit on a floppy).

    The way I see it is that the problem is solved and case is closed. Thanks for your help.
    • Marked as answer by Fundamentalman Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:25 AM
    Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:25 AM

All replies

  • Well, so far not bugging out telling me that there are no drives attached at the checking hardware stage. We shall see..........
    Friday, October 16, 2009 4:45 PM
  • OK, got to the F6 prompt - put the disk from intel in the floppy picked ich10r form the list of drivers and it said "File \iaStor.sys caused and unexpected error (4096) at line 2335 in d:nt\base\boot\setup\oemdisk.c.

    Lovely. A little further than I had gotten before, but not much.

    Idea?
    Friday, October 16, 2009 5:26 PM
  • Well, I tried the drivers from gigabyte and got the same thing. I am really at a loss now. anybody know what is error 4096?

    Ideas?
    Friday, October 16, 2009 5:35 PM
  • Looking at the gigabyte site, they list two different drivers.  One shows "Intel ICH9R/ICH10R Driver (Preinstall driver)
    Note: Press F6 during Windows* setup to read from floppy. (For non-VISTA operating systems)" which is .28 MB in size.  The other is "Intel ICH9R/ICH10R SATA RAID Driver " which is 25.23 MB in size.  Sure you're using the first one?
    Friday, October 16, 2009 7:09 PM
  • Yep. 100% Sure. Both the drivers I tried to install were the floppy install variety. To be extra sure I will download it again and try it again - hey, I am getting desperate!

    Second thought - I don't think 25.23MB will fit on a floppy anyway. Yep, 110% sure now.

    I will still try it again just cause I am getting desperate.
    Friday, October 16, 2009 10:27 PM
  • I understand your frustration with drivers.  I’m in the middle of a new Windows 7 install and can’t wait until 10/22/09 when all the working drivers will be availableJ, but I digress.

     

    Just to verify, have you set-up the RAID array in the bios prior to installing WHS?  WHS has no way of doing this, so just asking.
    Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:03 AM
  • Well, I tried it again. No change. Downloaded the floppy install directly from gigabyte's site.

    I did set it up as a RAID array in the BIOS. Thanks for thinking of it. In the beginning of the install WHS acknowledges that it is a RAID array. Later when I changed it to 1 simple SATA drive (just to try and get it working) WHS again acknowledged that it is a hard drive and this time recognized it as ATA.

    I know that this is really strange. It should just work. If WHS couldn't see the drives I would say that its a bad motherboard, but I don't think so at this point. WHS can see the drives, after all.

    I have got a couple of ideas still. I have not updated the the BIOS. I can't see how it would make a difference, but it is something to try.

    Looking at the motherboard manual they have a script or something that they use on the driver CD to "make" the SATA driver floppy. Interesting. All the drivers that I have used, I have pulled off the internet. I will have to try their script. Imagine that; maybe the latest and greatest on the website aren't really the one to use.

    Also, the motherboard has 2 separate SATA ports that are on a seperate controller. It is also possible to RAID drives on this controller as well. Maybe that is something I could try. So, the way I see it - I am not quite dead in the water yet. Outside of working1, no one has posted. That tells me that I am doing everything right and nobody has seen this problem before. Either that or there is no one else here but the two of us?

    Unfortunately, this weekend is going to be really busy. I problably won't be able to touch this project until Monday. I will post here when I know more.
    Saturday, October 17, 2009 5:10 AM
  • Your idea on updating the BIOS is worth a try.  The latest BIOS for this board is version F9 - "Improve ITE8718 I/O chip compatibility".   For a good explanation on how to use q-flash:  BIOS Flashing - A "How To ~ Qflash Guide" - TweakTown Forums .

    Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:38 PM
  • Well got back to work on this thing today.

    What I have done since I last posted:

    Thinking that it was a a bad hard drive I tried a different hard drive. No change.

    I reset the BIOS to "optimized defaults" and then reset the hard drive controller to a single SATA drive. No change.

    I updated the BIOS to the latest off of gigabyte's website and again set up the ich10r controller to a single SATA drive. Again, no change.

    I changed the ich10r driver that I was using to the ones on the cd that came with the motherboard and it hasn't changed anything.

    Right now I am loading Windows 7 on it to see how another OS handles this ich10r chipset.

    I am getting ready to try the separate SATA controller on the mb but it really bothers me that I can't get something to work that should work.

    Before I get too desperate, what do you guys think - is there something else that I should try?
    Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:58 AM
  • Well the Windows 7 install is working without one hitch. Everything seems to be very happy. Device manager has no errors or question marks. I am going to put WHS back on but this seems to indicate that it is not a hardware problem. As a side thought - I just got WHS and it seems to me that MS could have fixed this problem long ago. I mean come on...... is WHS a modern OS or not? SATA drives have been out how long now? Why allow this problem to persist?

    Working1 must be working so it seems very quiet here. I will keep posting here though, to help the next poor sap that follows in my footsteps.

    For now I think I will go to bed. I seem to be getting irritable.




    Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:53 AM
  • Looks like you tried pretty much everything.  You didn't mention if you did "optimized defaults" after the bios update.  If not, it needs to be done.

    Going to a separate RAID card maybe your best option.  And try to find one that list Windows Server 2003 drivers. 
    Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:39 AM
  • Working1 I can't tell you how much I appreciate your input. it's nice to have someone who can say what i am doing is right.

    I did use "optimized defaults" after the BIOS update. Of course "optimized defaults" sets the SATA controller to IDE compatibility mode so I changed that to ACHI mode to run as a single SATA (thats where I am now simply trying to get one drive to operate as a SATA drive). By the way, using 1 drive in IDE mode, WHS loads and boots fine.

    Unless I think of something else, the project for today is to try the separate controller. This board has 8 SATA ports, 6 intel ich10r, and 2 on a gigabyte proprietary chip. We shall see how this works out. If for some reason this doesn't work out, then I may have to run the boot drive in ide compatibility mode for the system drive. I will keep thinking about it though.
    Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:39 PM
  • If you configure your SATA ports to run as IDE, you will not need to load additional drivers, and will probably not have any further issues installing. As for drivers that are "in box", Windows Home Server is based on Windows Server 2003, and those are the drivers that are included. There are no SATA drivers because there was no SATA in the enterprise when Windows Server 2003 was introduced.

    Using IDE mode costs you a small amount of theoretical performance (which you would never see in real life due to other system and network bottlenecks), and means that you will not be able to use RAID for your system drive. But you make huge gains in compatibility.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Tuesday, October 20, 2009 4:05 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks for the input Ken.

    Let me clarify my rant from last night (boy, was I tired). I recently (just a couple of weeks ago) got my WHS disks. It already has Power Pack 1 installed. If MS can put Power Pack 1 on, why cant they put SATA drivers on like they do for 7 and Vista? If they are trying to push people to a newer version (like the difference between XP and Vista) just offer it. I will buy it. For example: it is easy to say There are no 1TB drives supported because there were no 1TB drives in the enterprise when Windows Server 2003 was introduced, but would we tolerate that? Perhaps there is a good reason for not including those drivers, but I just can't see it. It appears lazy. The next generation WHS cannot come too soon.

    I was waiting for someone to sugest IDE mode. It is an option but it is possible I will be trading one headache for another. I have been lurking here for a while and I have seen others who have had other problems with WHS and IDE mode. For example: http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/whshardware/thread/c36d7aa9-50d4-4af7-9ff9-dd465f31216d . Some of my drives are 1.5 GB so I may be staring this problem in the face if I set all of my drives to IDE mode. Fortinutely, it seems, I can select just a couple of ports or all ports to IDE. So I may be able to set the first three SATA ports to IDE, ignore the other two that are configured as IDE and use the others as SATA. It is possible I may need to do that. I am not ready to accept that as an answer yet.

    This problem is simular to this anology. This systemboard has two gigabit ports. I paid a little more for 8 SATA and 2 gigabit ports. most people can get everything working fine, but not you, Fundamentalman. For whatever unknown reason WHS doesn't like my SATA ports so they cant work as SATA ports and need to work as IDE ports. Now imagine that for example, WHS didn't like the gigabit ports and they only ran at 10/100. If you install another OS they work just fine, but not WHS. Tough luck, Fundamentalman. Just accept it - the difference between 10/100 and gigabit is really only theoretical and in real life you don't really notice. Who would accept that? Its just an analogy but I think that it describes where I am now. Why can't everything work as advertised. And that is what bugs me. Others got it to work, but I need to accept IDE mode.

    Respectfully, Ken, I am going to "Unpropose As Answer" your IDE solution. I still have a few tricks up my sleeve before I feel I should accept that as a solution.
    Tuesday, October 20, 2009 5:34 PM
  • Drivers are baked into the "sealed" (i.e. requires an Act of Congress to change) Windows Server 2003 setup. Effectively, they can't be changed/supplemented by the Windows Home Server product team because they're carved in stone. Power Pack 1 can be added to the base product because it's external software installed around Windows Server 2003. Does that help? (Probably not; it's the truth, but that's sort of cold comfort I suspect...)

    Specifically regarding IDE mode vs. AHCI mode performance, what I meant is that you will not see the full throughput that your drives are capable of no matter what mode the controllers are set to. Network and other performance bottlenecks will reduce overall throughput significantly, so it doesn't matter if your controllers are set to IDE or AHCI mode.

    As for the rest, I don't own the hardware you're working with, so I can't do the installation and guide you through it. I can only offer suggestions at a distance, generally aimed at maximizing compatibility for an easier installation.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:48 PM
    Moderator
  • My understanding is that the system drive or partition is the one area that is not duplicated. 
    You stated your reason for wanting to use RAID 1 in your first post.  I completely understand since this is why I'm doing it myself.  In fact I'm using a Gigabyte MB and seem to remember having the same issues you are seeing.  I did invest in a RAID 1 card, but, it was not cheap or at least the route I went.  Any RAID card under $300 seems suspect so I forked over the money for a 3ware 9650SE-4LPML PCI.  After 8 months of using this set-up, here's my free advice on two scenarios on setting up a new WHS with pros and cons:

    1. Use a single hard drive for your system drive and set it up to run as IDE.  Make sure the system hard drive is solid like a WD Black 640GB.  Be sure to either pre-test it in another OS or wait about a week before putting it into real service.  I just did a rebuild on a set-up where one died in less than a week.

    Pros: Less expensive set-up to start with.
    Cons: If the system hard drive dies, it will take more time to recover.  But, in theory, no data will be lost.

    2. Use a quality RAID card set-up with a RAID 1 array.  I use this just for the system drive and use the mother board sata connections to run the storage pool in IDE mode with duplication turned on for the shares.

    Pros: Fast recovery if one hard drive fails.  In theory an OS rebuild would never happen, just replacing the bad drive.
    Cons: More expensive.  The RAID card cost more than the mother board, CPU and hard drives combined.

    Conclusion:

    I would recommend either approach.  It all depends on budget constraints.  Keep in mind that RAID 1 only protects against one failure mode that being a single system hard drive failure.  There are at least 10 other failure modes that could occur in either scenario.
    Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:39 PM
  • Ken, earlier I responded to your post somewhat harshly. I hope that you understand that my fustration was directed at MS and not you personanly.

    In the hope that one day someone with the power to fix it will read it I will reiterate my fustration. Going from memory, back in the day when Windows 95 came out MS realized that  support for USB would probably be a good idea so they updated 95 and created a Windows 95b that included it. That is what I am talking about. WHS needs a WHSb. I really do understand Ken's explanation but I have no sympathy for internal company politics preventing progress. My belief is that WHS should have all the modern drivers to play ball in 2009. Period. I will now get off this soap box.

    Now, on to some good news. It's working! Yes, its working in SATA mode and above that in RAID 1! All this time I have felt that the ich10r would be a far more developed chipset than the jmicron that is also included on the board. Because of this, I had shunned the jmicron. When all avanues were exhausted (except IDE mode) I figured the jmicron was worth a shot. I used the floppy drivers from the motherboard CD and followed the motherboard manual and set it up with raid 1. Aside from holding my breath a really long time, everything went along fine. In comparison to all I have done recently it was ridiculously easy.

    Now your going to ask: you gonna trust your data to jmicron? But really what is there to loose? With 1 system drive if it fails, I install a new drive and reinstall. Now (with a RAID 1 system drive) I hope that if a drive fails I just replace the failed drive and keep going. But a worse case scenario would be that I am unable to rebuild the array. What happens then? Well, I replace the failed drive and reinstall. All my other data is trusted to WHS. It doesn't seem to be too bad of an arrangement to me.

    BTW, I should now be able to install the ich10r drivers (the big variety that don't fit on a floppy).

    The way I see it is that the problem is solved and case is closed. Thanks for your help.
    • Marked as answer by Fundamentalman Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:25 AM
    Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:25 AM
  • I intend to build a new computer with Windows Home Server and I looked at my shopping list and saw that my future motherboard (ASUS P5Q-EM) also contained ICH10R chipsets. I googled and found this.

      http://usingwindowshomeserver.com/2009/06/10/installing-windows-home-server-on-a-motherboard-with-intel-ich10r/

    I have not tried it myself but I hope it works.


    Has anyone installed Windows Home Server on a computer with the ICH10DO chipset?
    I'm thinking about choosing this motherboard instead, ASUS P5Q-VM DO.


    //H

    Monday, October 26, 2009 9:20 PM
  • I recently installed WHS on EXACTLY THE SAME motherboard as yours. I was having problems trying to get an install to complete no matter how I set up the system drive. Tried IDE, AHCI, RAID 1--ALL of them kept giving me BSOD at some point, and/or continual re-boots! Tried taking out all but 1 drive, tried taking out all but 1 2-GB memory stick, tried changing video adapters, etc. It seems although I was getting the floppy driver to "install" at the very beginning of installation, had been missing a second needed instance after one of the re-boots. Never could manage to hit the F6 key at quickly enough for this second time. I just wanted to use AHCI for the "increased speed" for transfers, etc. My solution to all this was to set the bios for AHCI, install only the system drive (WD 750GB Caviar Black), 1 stick of 2GB memory, and (this was the REAL KEY) use a USB flash drive to install from! Check out the Wiki on We Got Served for good step-by-step instructions for this.

    I will suggest however that where the instructions say to add both the RAID & AHCI drivers to the boot.wim, don't--only add the one you really want to use. Same thing for adding the drivers using n-Lite. Currently I have intermittent BSOD occurring with my server for no obvious reason, meaningless message about new hardware/software, that I suspect may be due to both the RAID & AHCI drivers being loaded at boot. Have not taken time yet to try a "re-install" to see if it helps as am now re-building one of my desktops with Win7 (didn't know until I tried to "upgrade" that can't go from Vista Home Premium to Win7 Pro via the upgrade route!) so is a total "clean install" for me. If this works for you, and you don't get those intermittent bsod's please do let us know so I can look forward to getting it re-installed the right way.

    Hope this helps you. Good luck.
    Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:43 AM
  • Ohhhhhhh Fundamentalman.....how I feel your pain!  I have been grappling with the exact scenario - EXACT.  Much hair has been pulled, much sleep has been lost.  I was salivating whilst scrolling down your post.  I have not turned to the GSATA ports yet, but I am about to jump the Intel ship and swim that way.  THANK YOU so much for taking the time to document your experiece - it has saved me a boat load of time for sure.

    I'm switching over to JMicron now.  You can assume that the lack of any further post by yours truly equates to a successful switch and pat yourself on the back.  Have a great holiday weekend - I will thanks to you!

    Pat Reddy
    Reddy Software Solutions, Inc.
    St. Louis, MO
    Wednesday, November 25, 2009 2:00 PM
  • Doh!  Me again.  But with good news....

    I didn't have to go to GSATA - I got the Intel working.
    I noticed, on another PC, that I couldn't format my floppy - the one with the drivers.
    I also read somewhere that you cannot just copy the files over - you have to use the utility provided on the Gigabyte DVD.
    I had copied them previously.  So anyway, when I couldn't format the floppy that I had previously copied the files to I simply used another floppy.
    Badda-bing badda-bang...money in the bank.  Now....I did use the utility this time, but I doubt it mattered, I believe it was the floppy I was using.

    Thanks again for all your info.

    PMR
    Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:28 PM