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Hub incorrectly (?) thinks remote firewall is off RRS feed

  • Question

  • I have a circle of six PCs running OneCare 2.0.  After a week of no issues, the hub PC (running XP) has started warning that the OneCare firewall on one of the remote PCs (the only run running Vista x64) has been disabled.  But when I go to that remote PC the OneCare firewall is enabled and there are no warnings.

     

    The warning on the hub seems to come and go, and may have something to do with the order in which these machines are rebooted.  But I haven't been able to figure out the pattern to make the problem come or go.  In fact, while I was writing this post the warning went away.

     

    Any ideas?

     

    (I'm not sure if this should have been posted in the Firewall or the Multi-Machine forum, because I'm not sure where the problem is.)

     

    Thanks.

    Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:32 PM

Answers

All replies

  • I have an identical problem.  Please let me know if you find a solution.  Thanks.

     

    Saturday, November 24, 2007 10:46 PM
  • I moved the thread to the Multi-PC folder.

    The first question I have is how do you have 6 PCs in a Circle since all PCs in the Circle must be using the same LiveID and you can only have 3 PCs on a subscription per the terms of the license?

    As for the updating problem, I assume that all the PCs reside on the same LAN segment? If so, the status warning is odd. If not, it can take an hour or so to communicate between PCs via the servers.

    -steve

     

    Monday, November 26, 2007 7:06 PM
    Moderator
  • Regarding 6 PCs in a circle and why it works  (it's actually 5 PCs; I forgot to add the 6th PC):  Good question!  I have them all registered with the same Live account and I only paid for the 3 PC license (because that's all Microsoft will let me pay for).  I didn't expect all 5 PCs to remain in the circle, but they all have a Good status and virus checking, etc., seems to be working fine on all machines.  I'd be happy to pay Microsoft for the additional machine support.  I'm thinking that they might be allowing more machines for free until they add support for charging for more.  That would be mighty thoughtful of them.  Managing two circles from two different hub PCs would have been a real hassle.  BTW, yes, they are all on the same LAN/subnet.  Also, what should the behavior be if the 3 PC limit was enforced?  What sort of error/warning will I get?  And has anyone actually seen the 3 PC limit being enforced?

     

    Regarding the warning:  After living with it for a few more days, it definitely only happens with the Vista machine reboots, and it definitely goes away within an hour or so.  I guess I can live with that behavior, but it would be nice if the machines communicated more often.  Otherwise I'm probably going to ignore most warnings for the first hour or so with the assumption that they'll go away.  If it's a real problem then I will unfortunatetly be exposed for a few hours, so I hope it's something Microsoft fixes eventually.

    Monday, November 26, 2007 10:07 PM
  • Sailor22, does your problem go away after a few hours, like my problem?

    Monday, November 26, 2007 10:08 PM
  •  HappyFunBoater wrote:

    Regarding 6 PCs in a circle and why it works  (it's actually 5 PCs; I forgot to add the 6th PC):  Good question!  I have them all registered with the same Live account and I only paid for the 3 PC license (because that's all Microsoft will let me pay for).  I didn't expect all 5 PCs to remain in the circle, but they all have a Good status and virus checking, etc., seems to be working fine on all machines.  I'd be happy to pay Microsoft for the additional machine support.  I'm thinking that they might be allowing more machines for free until they add support for charging for more.  That would be mighty thoughtful of them.  Managing two circles from two different hub PCs would have been a real hassle.  BTW, yes, they are all on the same LAN/subnet.  Also, what should the behavior be if the 3 PC limit was enforced?  What sort of error/warning will I get?  And has anyone actually seen the 3 PC limit being enforced?

     

    Regarding the warning:  After living with it for a few more days, it definitely only happens with the Vista machine reboots, and it definitely goes away within an hour or so.  I guess I can live with that behavior, but it would be nice if the machines communicated more often.  Otherwise I'm probably going to ignore most warnings for the first hour or so with the assumption that they'll go away.  If it's a real problem then I will unfortunatetly be exposed for a few hours, so I hope it's something Microsoft fixes eventually.

    Thanks for the clarification.

    The 3 PC limit is not enforced except at activation if too many PCs are added to a subscription. You will basically be unable to activate for that LiveID again, even if it is a reinstall, as you've hit the activation count limit at that point.

    Of course, this could change at any time. I do wish that Microsoft would allow purchase of additional licenses for a subscription. This was hinted at in the past, but it hasn't come to pass yet. So, technically, you really should purchase another subscription for the second set of PCs using a different LiveID - yes managing via 2 hubs is a pain, but since this is the first iteration of the Circle concept, I expect to see more functionality moving forward.

    The strange thing about your original problem is that the machines are on the same LAN segment. They *should* be in direct communication with each other and changes made should be almost instant. On a monitored PC, turn off the firewall and the hub should reflect that change in seconds. On the hub, turn on the monitored PC's firewall as the action, and it should happen immediately and the hub status updated immediately. For some reason it appears that the hub and monitored PC in your case are talking through the server, hence the hour delay - which I witnessed today with a PC that was at risk due to being restored to a 3 week old image. An hour after it came online, the hub turned red. An hour after it updated, the hub turned green again.

    -steve

     

    Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:20 AM
    Moderator
  •  Sailor22 wrote:
    I have an identical problem.  Please let me know if you find a solution.  Thanks.

     

    Identical in that the stats takes an hour or more to update on the hub for the remote PC? Identical in that you have more than 3 PCs associated with a LiveID?

    -steve

    Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:21 AM
    Moderator
  •  Stephen Boots wrote:

    Thanks for the clarification.

    The 3 PC limit is not enforced except at activation if too many PCs are added to a subscription. You will basically be unable to activate for that LiveID again, even if it is a reinstall, as you've hit the activation count limit at that point.

     

    I activated all 5 machines within an hour of each other.  Perhaps this got around the activation limit check.  I'll be adding the 6th in the next few days.  It will be interesting to note whether this 6th one fails.

    Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:49 AM
  •  Stephen Boots wrote:

    The strange thing about your original problem is that the machines are on the same LAN segment. They *should* be in direct communication with each other and changes made should be almost instant. On a monitored PC, turn off the firewall and the hub should reflect that change in seconds. On the hub, turn on the monitored PC's firewall as the action, and it should happen immediately and the hub status updated immediately. For some reason it appears that the hub and monitored PC in your case are talking through the server, hence the hour delay - which I witnessed today with a PC that was at risk due to being restored to a 3 week old image. An hour after it came online, the hub turned red. An hour after it updated, the hub turned green again.

    -steve

     

    OK, I tried a little experiment.

     

    I turned off the OneCare firewall on a monitored PC.  The hub PC immediatedly showed the fault.  Good so far.

     

    Then I use the hub PC to repair the problem.  It showed an "in progress" message for the monitored PC.  On the monitored PC the firewall was immediately enabled and the status went green.  However on the hub PC the "in progress" message has remained for at least ten minutes now.  And the status is still red.  I'm assuming that eventually (in about an hour) the status will finally go green.  We'll see.

    Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:58 AM
  • Identical in that I was seeing the same issues with firewall warning and antivirus warning for the local pc (running vista).  The warnings showed up on the hub (running XP) but there were no warnings on the local PC. The difference is that I only have two PCs -- one hub and one local.  Somehow the issue has resolved, except that I am still unable to share my printer from the Hub PC (XP Pro) to the local PC (Vista).

     

    Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:21 PM
  • Thanks, HappyFunBoater.  Yes, the problem went away for the most part. I am still not able to share my printer.

     

    Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:22 PM
  •  Sailor22 wrote:
    Thanks, HappyFunBoater.  Yes, the problem went away for the most part. I am still not able to share my printer.

     

    What type of printer? How attached? To which PC? Are all PCs the same architecture - 32 bit? OneCare cannot share between an x86 (32 bit) and x64 PC due to drive issues.

    -steve

    Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:42 PM
    Moderator
  • OK, two new factoids:

     

    This time when the monitored machine booted the hub showed both the fiirewall and virus scan being turned off.  But when I check the monitored machine everything is fine.  I assume that in an hour the hub will be updated with the correct status.

     

    Also, I had a different monitored machine that missed it's backup window because it was off.  I went to the monitored machine and ran the backup.  Several minutes after the backup completed, the hub still showed that the backup hadn't been run.  Again, I assume that the status will be updated within an hour.

     

    UPDATE:  My assumptions were correct.  Within an hour the hub correctly shows green status on both machines.

     

    So to summarize the two problems I see:

     

    (1) The only Vista machine in my circle causes the hub to see OneCare components to be temporarily off during boot.

     

    (2) When the hub sees a problem it takes about an hour to see the problem being corrected.

     

    I can't think of anything unique in my LAN configuration.  I have a D-Link router with a combination of wired and wireless computers.  I wonder if it's related to having more than 3 machines in my circle.

     

     

     

    Tuesday, November 27, 2007 11:20 PM
  •  

    Really?  I have a Vista x64 machine that sees the printer on an XP x86 machine.  (This printer was added automatically when OneCare was installed, i.e., I didn't add it manually or do anything special.  Is it the other way round that doesn't work?)

     

    RETRACT COMMENT:  Hmm.  I was apparently wrong.  OneCare clearly states that this mix of machine types are not supported.  And in hindsight I do remember adding the printer manually, which does seem to work.  Sorry for the confusion.

    Tuesday, November 27, 2007 11:24 PM
  • It is a Canon MP530, attached by usb cable to the XP Pro sp2 pc.  The other pc runs Vista x86.

    Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:00 PM
  •  Sailor22 wrote:

    It is a Canon MP530, attached by usb cable to the XP Pro sp2 pc.  The other pc runs Vista x86.

    Since it appears that both of your PCs are 32 bit, I recommend that you contact support to investigate why sharing is not working for you. 

    How to reach support (FAQ) - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2421771&SiteID=2

    -steve

    Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:00 PM
    Moderator