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Drive failure results in data loss on replicated shares, suggestions for next time?

Question
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So a few months ago I had a drive failure. I removed the drive from the pool and got the standard "you have permanently lost some files, blah blah, we won't tell you what these files are because this dialog box is dumb" etc. Now when this has happened before it generally means all the backups are lost, which while annoying isn't a HUGE deal. I reset the backup database, rebacked up my machine and everything is well. However I was going through some of the shares today and I noticed some folders in a couple of the replicated shares aren't there anymore. I did have one unreplicated share and I lost data from that share which I was expecting, but I thought the replicated ones would be safe.
The drive that failed was a 500gb drive and I had over 1tb free when I removed it. Suggestions for anything I can do different for next time or should I just consider getting a non-WHS NAS?
Saturday, January 3, 2009 5:17 PM
Answers
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daishi said:Yes, KB950193 is the one that fixes the problem you and a few others experienced due to a hard drive failure.
At most 2 months ago I think
Today I was running WHS cleanup just to see what it would do and it said a lot of files had bad reparse points (and the files did exist so I didn't run the little cmd file to delete them)
edit: I did run updates on my server today since you mentioned it and one of the updates was kb950193 which sounds like what happened.
daishi said:No, that's not correct. It says:According to the kb article however if you use the remove drive wizard the issue shouldn't happen.
This issue occurs for one of the following reasons:- A hard drive on the home server was removed incorrectly.
- A hardware failure has occurred on a hard drive.
Your case falls under the second option.daishi said:I always use the wizard when a drive fails (and it always gives me the 'you permanently lost files' error)
sigh
You might still be able to get the data back through a data recovery service (either a professional service or a DIY program), although trying to recover data that was removed 2 months ago might not be possible (depending on how much you've used the server and, more specifically, that drive since then). As an aside, I would strongly recommend you turn on Automatic Updates as well (so that your server is always up-to-date).- Edited by kariya21Moderator Sunday, January 4, 2009 4:04 PM more info
- Proposed as answer by kariya21Moderator Sunday, January 4, 2009 4:05 PM
- Marked as answer by Jonas Svensson -FST- Saturday, January 17, 2009 9:23 PM
Sunday, January 4, 2009 4:04 PMModerator
All replies
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How long ago did the drive fail? There was an issue which could result in loss of duplicated files in the scenario you describe, but it was fixed a while ago.
I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)Saturday, January 3, 2009 6:26 PMModerator -
At most 2 months ago I think
Today I was running WHS cleanup just to see what it would do and it said a lot of files had bad reparse points (and the files did exist so I didn't run the little cmd file to delete them)
edit: I did run updates on my server today since you mentioned it and one of the updates was kb950193 which sounds like what happened. According to the kb article however if you use the remove drive wizard the issue shouldn't happen. I always use the wizard when a drive fails (and it always gives me the 'you permanently lost files' error)
sigh
Sunday, January 4, 2009 3:37 PM -
daishi said:Yes, KB950193 is the one that fixes the problem you and a few others experienced due to a hard drive failure.
At most 2 months ago I think
Today I was running WHS cleanup just to see what it would do and it said a lot of files had bad reparse points (and the files did exist so I didn't run the little cmd file to delete them)
edit: I did run updates on my server today since you mentioned it and one of the updates was kb950193 which sounds like what happened.
daishi said:No, that's not correct. It says:According to the kb article however if you use the remove drive wizard the issue shouldn't happen.
This issue occurs for one of the following reasons:- A hard drive on the home server was removed incorrectly.
- A hardware failure has occurred on a hard drive.
Your case falls under the second option.daishi said:I always use the wizard when a drive fails (and it always gives me the 'you permanently lost files' error)
sigh
You might still be able to get the data back through a data recovery service (either a professional service or a DIY program), although trying to recover data that was removed 2 months ago might not be possible (depending on how much you've used the server and, more specifically, that drive since then). As an aside, I would strongly recommend you turn on Automatic Updates as well (so that your server is always up-to-date).- Edited by kariya21Moderator Sunday, January 4, 2009 4:04 PM more info
- Proposed as answer by kariya21Moderator Sunday, January 4, 2009 4:05 PM
- Marked as answer by Jonas Svensson -FST- Saturday, January 17, 2009 9:23 PM
Sunday, January 4, 2009 4:04 PMModerator -
daishi said:
So a few months ago I had a drive failure. I removed the drive from the pool and got the standard "you have permanently lost some files, blah blah, we won't tell you what these files are because this dialog box is dumb" etc. Now when this has happened before it generally means all the backups are lost, which while annoying isn't a HUGE deal. I reset the backup database, rebacked up my machine and everything is well. However I was going through some of the shares today and I noticed some folders in a couple of the replicated shares aren't there anymore. I did have one unreplicated share and I lost data from that share which I was expecting, but I thought the replicated ones would be safe.
The drive that failed was a 500gb drive and I had over 1tb free when I removed it. Suggestions for anything I can do different for next time or should I just consider getting a non-WHS NAS?
I am largely clueless as to figuring out WHS issues and do not yet have experience with losing a drive.
That said, I have two points in response:
1. I been using the jungle disk add-in to make offsite backups of my WHS folders that I want to back up (but not of the PC backups... that is not an option and anyway would be too much of a burden on my bandwidth). Use of this add-in would come with various caveats:
Jungle disk is not free. It is an offsite backup software that seems to be a front end for the Amazon.com S3 cloud (or some such terminology). I use it for backing up all my computers, after having tried a couple of other offsite services. It is comparatively affordable (I am billed each month.... I'll estimate less than $10 per month). The add-in specifically for WHS is one that Jungle disk seems to have done a good job with at first, but it does not seem to be as ardently pursued in terms of updating as with the other softwares they put out. In this recent statement I think they gave a decent idea of their sort-of ambivalence. They are somewhat on top of continuing with the project, but are finding that WHS itself does not warrant their full attention... it is the NAS market they are targeting for backup:Moving forward, we are focusing on a strategy that allows us to support a wide range of these devices in addition to Windows Home Server. The separation of the backup service from the GUI in the 2.50 release will be one key step in allowing us to do this. Porting the software to these other devices will also take some time, but we expect it will be made easier by the fact that we already support Linux and non-Intel (PPC) platforms. In the end, we plan to provide a unified online backup solution for the entire home server and NAS market.
I am skeptical. It is arguably hard enough to create for WHS. I wonder how they plan to do stable software for all-manner of other software.
2. There is talk of whether WHS itself or an add-in will let you do backups and of what sort. I use BDBB add-in to do backups of backups, but A) have never verified that I could actually use this B) you are seeming more to ask about backups of shared folders. This is a mystery to me, so all I can do is reference a thread where you can see what I am saying:
http://forum.wegotserved.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3769Well I am only an enthusiastic amateur so please take care in trying out my suggestions - always leave yourself an exit strategy!
Is this really true? I don't know if it would help speak to your question, but despite my lack of experience in the matter, I will try to keep my eye open on it.
In SP1 it is now possible to backup the WHS folders to an external (or internal drive) which is not part of the WHS pool.Sunday, January 4, 2009 6:02 PM -
I had turned off automatic updates for WHS because it was rebooting in the middle of the night and the backups were failing. If it gave me the option to notify me that updates were available or download them but not install them I would have left them turned on. A server OS shouldn't just reboot without notifying you.
Below the descriptipon of the kb is this which I thought would apply.
To avoid this issue, you must use the Remove a Hard Drive Wizard before you physically remove any hard drives from your home server. The Remove a Hard Drive Wizard is available on the Server Storage tab of the Windows Home Server Console.
I lost some data but it's nothing I don't have backups for or can't redownload but this is not the first time I have been hit by a bug in WHS that causes data loss. I still can't store files that use ADS on the server even though that was 'fixed' ages ago.
Jungle disk isn't an option since I have several TB that would need to be backed up and at that size the cost becomes to much
Monday, January 5, 2009 4:04 PM -
daishi said:Although this is not supported, you could just change the time of the install by logging into the server and changing the time Automatic Updates occurs. (Or just do what I do: mark the second Tuesday of every month at 10:00 AM PST on your calendar. ;) )
I had turned off automatic updates for WHS because it was rebooting in the middle of the night and the backups were failing. If it gave me the option to notify me that updates were available or download them but not install them I would have left them turned on. A server OS shouldn't just reboot without notifying you.
daishi said:Again, you had a hard drive failure. How you removed it is irrelevent. That sentence is only referring to people who removed a drive incorrectly but did not have a drive failure.Below the descriptipon of the kb is this which I thought would apply.
To avoid this issue, you must use the Remove a Hard Drive Wizard before you physically remove any hard drives from your home server. The Remove a Hard Drive Wizard is available on the Server Storage tab of the Windows Home Server Console.
daishi said:Yes, it was fixed long ago. If you are still having problems with Alternate Data Streams, I would strongly recommend you file a bug report on Connect.I lost some data but it's nothing I don't have backups for or can't redownload but this is not the first time I have been hit by a bug in WHS that causes data loss. I still can't store files that use ADS on the server even though that was 'fixed' ages ago.
daishi said:Jungle disk isn't an option since I have several TB that would need to be backed up and at that size the cost becomes to much
Tuesday, January 6, 2009 4:07 AMModerator