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restore to new pc: BSOD RRS feed

  • Question

  • Nice,

    So I had to restore a xp pc to new computer... things went fine until

    ...xp is starting up.. I can barely see the bsod.. and it reboots..

    Is a working new pc, tried a linux live cd and it ran fine..

    old pc: p4, ide
    new pc: intel core 2 duo, sata

    since there was no indication in the whs restore process that this shouldnt work I assumed it would run ok..

    I now have to get an old p4 somehow and restore to that one?
    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:41 PM

Answers

  • Actually the best way to do a bare metal restore for XP to completely different hardware is:

    1. Restore backup to new machine using Windows Home Server Client Restore CD
    2. Disconnect network cable
    3. Boot from original Microsoft Windows XP install CD
    4. If necessary use F6 at start of text mode install to include additional storage drivers.
    4a. You may need to prepare a diskette with the necessary storage drivers yourself, check MB or SATA controller manual for instructions. If you have SATA disks and you don't have storage drivers, or if they fail to load properly for some reason you can also choose to set the disk to run in IDE mode from the BIOS. 
    5. Choose install
    6. AFTER it has found your current installation choose repair.
    7. Get some coffee, beer or whatever you like and watch the install process. You will enjoy the speed if you upgrade from P4
    8. After install has finished install all required drivers for the new system (cancel new hardware found installs)
    9. Reboot, most hardware will now be installed automatically
    10. Connect network cable, run Windows updates.
    11. Activate windows (may require phone activation)
    12. Have FUN

    Please make sure you're not violating EULA 


    Replacing hal.dll will often also work, however it's more laborious and will not always do the trick, especially if you have major hardware change, for example from 32bit single core to 64bit multicore machine. Instead of replacing hal.dll you can also use boot.ini to specify which hal should be used

    The BSOD at boot is probably caused by storage driver not present. This can be circumvented by setting SATA HDD units to run in IDE mode as Olaf already suggested, if the only change would be changing from IDE to SATA disk

    • Edited by brubberModerator Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:23 AM add 4a
    • Marked as answer by hoberion Saturday, November 29, 2008 8:44 AM
    Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:17 AM
    Moderator

All replies

  •  Hi,

    From your description, it sounds as though you are trying to take a backup from one computer and use it to effectively build a new computer.
    If so, it's hardly suprising, as there will be multiple differences between them, so things like drivers, HAL etc. just will not work and your only option would be to install the operating system/programs on your new Client and then open a backup of the 'old' Client and just copy across the data files etc.


    Colin
    If anyone answers your query successfully, please mark it as 'Helpful', to guide other users.
    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:08 PM
    Moderator
  • Windows Home Server backup isn't designed to migrate a working configuration from one computer to another. It's intended to restore a computer back onto the same hardware. In certain situations, it may work to allow you to migrate to new hardware, but for the most part, driver and hardware differences will cause problems such as you have described. In addition, migrating to new hardware in this fashion is (technically) a violation of the EULA for your copy of Windows, which ties it to particular hardware.

    There are various ways to work around this, but for the most part, Colin's recommendation is probably the easiest course: reinstall Windows and your software, then use Windows Home Server backup to restore data files.

    If you want to proceed, you should do some research (Google is a good place to start) on replacing the file HAL.DLL as part of the migration. The general steps are to restore the disk, connect it to another PC (or use the Vista or XP recovery console, available on your installation media) and replace the file HALL.DLL with an appropriate file from your installation media. That is usually sufficient to allow the PC to boot, at which point you can install drivers as required. 

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:19 PM
    Moderator
  • "From your description, it sounds as though you are trying to take a backup from one computer and use it to effectively build a new computer."

    Yes, the old one mb crashed, I bought a new motherboard.. 

    thats the reason I make full system backups, so I dont have to spend 2 weeks getting every program and setting back (I use time machine/foldershare on my mac for data backups, time machine is better then the "shadow copies/digg though backups" in whs), other data is mostly contained on the server

    "Windows Home Server backup isn't designed to migrate a working configuration from one computer to another. It's intended to restore a computer back onto the same hardware"

    odd, so if my computer hardware crashes I cant use my old configuration due to EULA? thats odd, why would I need a full system backup then?




    The data is not an issue, the programs and settings are..


    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:39 PM
  • What do you do - install a full version of Windows to the new machine with the new MB, then copy off that hal.dll file, then use the WHS restore, install the recovery console, and then replace the hal.dll (the one that BSODs) with the one from the clean install?

    Is this the procedure?

    Thanks.

    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:42 PM
  •  Hi,

    WHS is designed as a backup, so you can recover quickly from the most common failure, which is drive failure.

    Apart from the (il)legality of it all, I couldn't imagine how any software manufacturer could possibly design a product which could take a working copy of any one computer and then reinstall it to any arbitrary hardware that might become available now or at some time in the future.
    Also, there is no way that I would use any computer for important work, where there could well be underlaying hardware and software problems.

    As an aside, the EULA for your server is similar, insofar as you cannot ever reinstall it on dissimilar hardware. The fact that Microsoft has accepted re-validation for WHS users to date, doesn't mean that they will continue so to do.

    Colin




    If anyone answers your query successfully, please mark it as 'Helpful', to guide other users.
    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:52 PM
    Moderator
  • Can't retail versions be moved from one machine to another?
    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:59 PM
  • Alex,

    In theory, no. The EULA requires failed parts to be replaced with identical items.

    After saying that, I've rebuilt a couple of WHS test servers onto different hardware and while I haven't been able to get automatic validation, I've had no such problems when using the 'phone validation.

    Colin



    If anyone answers your query successfully, please mark it as 'Helpful', to guide other users.
    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:08 PM
    Moderator
  • Alex, it's more like (I don't do this, I reinstall, so I'll guarantee I'm going to get a detail wrong):
    • restore from your WHS backup
    • Boot from your XP or Vista recovery disk
    • Replace HAL.DLL in C:\windows\system32 with the appropriate one from your installation media. That's often (but with old hardware not always) ACPI.DLL.
    Often, this will allow the computer to boot, though you'll still need a slew of drivers. This is also a way to boot from an old system disk in a new (different) computer.

    Please do some searching before you try this, since as I said I'm sure I'm missing some critical step. :)

    Regarding moving retail software from one computer to another, I would have to read the EULA again to be sure. However, If you buy a "retail" package of Vista (i.e. in the nice plastic and shrink wrap) I believe you're allowed to install it on one computer. If you remove it from that computer you can put it on another.

    If you buy a computer with Vista pre-installed, Vista is locked (per the EULA) to that computer. If you have a Dell and it fails, you can't legally buy an HP and "move" the license. The same thing is true if you buy Vista in a brown envelope from e.g. NewEgg. That packaging indicates it's a "system builder" package, which is intended to be purchased and installed by a custom PC builder for sale to a client. So it gets tied to hardware on activiation the same as the OEM Vista from Dell.

    Does all that help?

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:09 PM
    Moderator
  • hoberion, the full system backup allows you to restore your computer after the #1 failure for home PCs: the failure of your hard drive. 
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:10 PM
    Moderator
  • Ken Warren said:

    hoberion, the full system backup allows you to restore your computer after the #1 failure for home PCs: the failure of your hard drive. 


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)

    I have an license for windows, its not linked to my computer.. I build my own computers

    in fact I usually buy a windows license the day the product comes out, I also bought whs the day it was available (although that was system builder).. and I will probably buy windows 7 asap

    The main issue I have with this is this: Never, not once, have I been warned that this would happen. My guess was that they would do something like you used to do with ghost and sysprep... just when I need it, I need to get hacking to get my backup back (dont care about the data, see previous post). If I had known this would happen I wouldnt have bothered buying a new motherboard + disks but I would have bought a mac mini..

    even on the whs product site it says:
    "With Windows Home Server, you can bring back individual files or folders for a home computer. You can even rescue a PC that's had an unfortunate accident because Windows Home Server makes a copy of the entire contents of your home computer hard drive."

    I would call a broken motherboard an unfortunate accident...

    I thank you for your comments about EULA's etc, I used to be a MCSE sysadmin so I know all about licenses (software assurance, etc) but thats not really why I posted here..


    I thought this experience with the restore would go as smooth as my time machine recovery a few months ago.. and I am sure if the whs team gets to it they can get this into the recover cd.

    but at this moment, I am really amazed that there wasnt even a warning in the entire restore process!!!

    and I still dont have my pc up and running after 5 hours..
    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:53 PM
  • to keep it simple, it comes to this:

    As an user I believed I could do this, "oh my pc crashed, ill just run to the store, buy a new mb/proc/mem/disk and ill restore from whs"

    I am running the restore again now.. and seriously, it never mentions "you can only restore on the same hardware!", not even in the help files...

    then I will try to replace hall.dll



    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 10:04 PM
  • Hi,
    change the mode of the SATA controller in the mainboard Bios to IDE/ATA/PATA. This could help to overcome the Bluescreen.
    Best greetiings from Germany
    Olaf
    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 10:17 PM
    Moderator
  • Ken I think it does help, it's just that in order to restore the OS to a different machine, as you've said, you have an obligation to use the retail version (either as originally installed on the original machine, or a new retail copy).  So the entire discussion here revolves around having an image that has either a 1) retail version that you are going to move, or 2) an OEM version that you can't move.  If #1, under the license agreement, you can move it, but hal.dll is wrong (the new machine has different hardware), and under #2 you can't move it and hal.dll is wrong.  Either way you need a usable hal.dll and either way it seems you've got to get it from doing a fresh install using a retail version.

    So there isn't an OEM CD to copy from, or there is one and the Hal.dll or Acpi.dll wouldn't work.

    So I guess my question is, if you want to try to keep all the old programs and if you had the retail version installed on the original (or if you have a fresh retail license), should you first install a retail copy on the new machine, grab the hal.dll file, then perform the restore (overwriting the fresh install) and then use the recovery console to copy over the hal.dll obtained during the retail install?

    Does that make any sense?

    And if that is the way forward, does Windows Update change hal.dll?  Because if it does then you've got to update the system to the point where the old install was updated, which presumably is an update to completion, but not necessarily.

    Thanks for your help, again.
    Thursday, November 27, 2008 1:43 AM
  • Alex, acpi.dll can be extracted from a number of sources. You should make sure you get the appropriate one for your operating system, but every Windows install disk has the required file for that version. And there's no need to install Windows to get to it. The specifics aren't really germane to this forum, but there's lots of information on the internet about this.

    And don't fuss too much about the EULA. Technically, moving a backup from one computer to another is a violation of the EULA, unless you have a Volume License agreement (in which case you've paid for a large number of installations with the same product code). It's not the sort of violation that's going to get you hunted down, however. And if you have a valid license for the hardware the OS is running on, who cares if the actual product code embedded in the registry is the right one? :)

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Thursday, November 27, 2008 1:56 AM
    Moderator
  • I'll try to shed a little light on this (I hope!  :)  ):
    In no particular order....

    No, Windows Update does not change hal.dll.  As you already noted, the HAL is generated (from the generic version on the installation media) during the initial installation of the OS.  It never changes - for that machine. 
    That doesn't change the fact, though, that every PC's HAL is a little (if not a lot) different.

    Your workaround (third paragraph) is a very long path to the same end that Ken already suggested:  run the restore operation, boot from your Windows disc, and replace hal.dll.  Windows will finish the HAL generation when it reboots.
    Even that, though, is cludgey, and I would never trust that machine to be stable in the long run.  Sooner or later, doing this will bite you in the rear.  Some oddball problem will crop up that will not be able to be corrected without reinstalling Windows.

    @ hoberion:  Your Time Machine backup recovery worked, because, well, Macs (being Unix-based) don't work how Windows systems work.  WHS backup is designed, primarily, to restore a PC to a working state after either a hard drive failure (the single most common hardware failure), or a catastrophic OS failure (e.g sudden massive virii/malware infestation.)
    If you lose a motherboard, you can always connect the HDD to another system to recover the data on it.
    For most people, the data is worth far, far more than the configured OS install.  :)
    -Chris
    Thursday, November 27, 2008 2:09 AM
  • OK gotcha, Ken and cuppie.  Hal.dll gets modified in the reboot after it is copied over.

    OK thanks for your help with that, that clarifies that issue a lot.
    Thursday, November 27, 2008 2:51 AM
  • Actually the best way to do a bare metal restore for XP to completely different hardware is:

    1. Restore backup to new machine using Windows Home Server Client Restore CD
    2. Disconnect network cable
    3. Boot from original Microsoft Windows XP install CD
    4. If necessary use F6 at start of text mode install to include additional storage drivers.
    4a. You may need to prepare a diskette with the necessary storage drivers yourself, check MB or SATA controller manual for instructions. If you have SATA disks and you don't have storage drivers, or if they fail to load properly for some reason you can also choose to set the disk to run in IDE mode from the BIOS. 
    5. Choose install
    6. AFTER it has found your current installation choose repair.
    7. Get some coffee, beer or whatever you like and watch the install process. You will enjoy the speed if you upgrade from P4
    8. After install has finished install all required drivers for the new system (cancel new hardware found installs)
    9. Reboot, most hardware will now be installed automatically
    10. Connect network cable, run Windows updates.
    11. Activate windows (may require phone activation)
    12. Have FUN

    Please make sure you're not violating EULA 


    Replacing hal.dll will often also work, however it's more laborious and will not always do the trick, especially if you have major hardware change, for example from 32bit single core to 64bit multicore machine. Instead of replacing hal.dll you can also use boot.ini to specify which hal should be used

    The BSOD at boot is probably caused by storage driver not present. This can be circumvented by setting SATA HDD units to run in IDE mode as Olaf already suggested, if the only change would be changing from IDE to SATA disk

    • Edited by brubberModerator Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:23 AM add 4a
    • Marked as answer by hoberion Saturday, November 29, 2008 8:44 AM
    Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:17 AM
    Moderator
  • brubber, thanks for that.  that's really helpful.

    do you have a procedure for vista?
    Thursday, November 27, 2008 11:43 AM
  • Vista has it's Startup Repair feature, if you boot from DVD. This covers several of the known scenarios, why a system won't boot (unfortunately not the IDE/SATA conversion, which could be solved with a registry hack). 
    If this automated process fails, it really depends from what error you receive, if anything can be done. Vista has not such thing like a repair installation.
    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf
    Thursday, November 27, 2008 11:59 AM
    Moderator
  • cuppie said:

    Your workaround (third paragraph) is a very long path to the same end that Ken already suggested:  run the restore operation, boot from your Windows disc, and replace hal.dll.  Windows will finish the HAL generation when it reboots.
    Even that, though, is cludgey, and I would never trust that machine to be stable in the long run.  Sooner or later, doing this will bite you in the rear.  Some oddball problem will crop up that will not be able to be corrected without reinstalling Windows.

    Which is why I don't do it. IMO, the procedure I outlined so sketchily is only of use to recover the data on a bootable disk after a severe hardware issue on a PC that's isolated and without backups. You get your data off, then "pave over" the disk with a new installation.



    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Thursday, November 27, 2008 2:28 PM
    Moderator
  • Alex Barimo said:

    brubber, thanks for that.  that's really helpful.

    do you have a procedure for vista?


    No, at least  not for now. If Vista Recovery Environment (Repair from install DVD) can't fix it you should find a way to perform upgrade install. Problem is you can not do that (currently) when you boot from the install DVD.

    Personally I would choose to do a clean install, install programs and then recover data from (WHS) backup.
    Thursday, November 27, 2008 7:26 PM
    Moderator