locked
why validate for a 3rd time? RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi,

    I have a retail version of XP Pro (cost me 160 €) and I had to activate the product after 30 days - fair enough. I also ran the GEnuineCheck tool which I downloaded as part of WU in January 2005. My question is, why go through this process again? I suspect you don't want to check just OS licenses but all MS Software possibly even 3rd party. What makes it worse it that now Windows Update is disabled; what's the hidden agenda?

    regards
    Realraven
    Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:01 PM

Answers

  • Realraven2000,

    I just looked over the FAQ to be sure.

    Your computer is checked for validation only when you manually go to Windows Update, Microsoft Update, or Microsoft downloads to get updates or downloads.  (Your Office installation if you have one is checked when you go to Microsoft Update or Office downloads.)

    It's a quid-pro-quo arrangement--if you want something from MS, they want something from you--to make sure you're using a legitimate copy of XP.

    So, if you don't visit those web sites for the next six months, your computer would not face the validation process for the next six months.  Automatic updates, if enabled on your computer, receive security-related updates regardless of whether the XP installation is genuine or not.

    The automatic updates process might push out a new verison of the Notification program to computers that are running a counterfeit copy of XP, so those computers may see the notification being turned on again if it was turned off.  (What good is a nag screen if it doesn't annoy you? )

    Perhaps the MS reps will see your post and transmit your concerns to the higher-ups.  Maybe it is feasible to configure retail product keys with a more lasting "get out of jail free" card as compared with the more transient nature of the other varieties of licenses.

    Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:23 PM

All replies

  • RealRaven,

    If your installation of XP is legit (and there is no reason to think it is not at this point), then it's likely there are technical issues that have cropped up preventing Validation from working properly now.  MS has recently made changes to the Validation process and it's possible that these changes are causing Validation to not work on your computer.  Some of the technical reasons are out-of-date Validation active-x controls, incorrect NTFS permissions on a specific folder installed for Validation, among others.

    The first thing to do is run the following diag tool and post the results, and one of the MS reps will take a look and offer further advice.  The tool masks any sensitive info that it collects.

    http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012

    Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:37 PM
  • NO I just didn't run it at first. Then I installed it just disabling  the autorun change it was trying to make (probably just a tidy up job anyway). Now I can enter WU again.  The thing is , I just did not see the point of running it as I had already ran a MS GenuineCheck utility last year? As far as I remember that was up for grabs on Windows Update as well.

    What's different this time - only the fact that it stops WU from working? Also is the validation process ran every time I log on to Windows Update (as it seems to install an ActiveX plugin)? And will Microsoft add 3rd party validation? They could easily sell this to other companies, say we will validate your McAfee VirusScan and disable any updates if its not legit (for a fee).

     Maybe I am just paranoid, but it feels a bit dodgy...

    realraven
    Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:48 PM
  • I was wondering if you are currently experiencing any Validation issues at this time or was that a one time validation you mentioned? The Genuine control will ocassionally be updated prompting for a re-validation. This is to include the newest blocked keys and ensure the system has not been updated with an invalid key.

    When the machine has not been validated, Windows Update will fail. Your best option at that point is to ensure Automatic Updates is turned on until you can get a genuine copy of Windows installed. This will ensure you get critical Windows updates.

    If you are having a Validation issue could you please provide us with the following information:

    In order to provide a ready resource for our customers to troubleshoot validation problems we have provided the following diagnostic site:

     

    http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/diag/

     

     By following the directions on this site you may be able to resolve this issue. If this still fails please provide us with the diagnostics information from the WGA Diag Tool located here:

     

    http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012

     

    By using the “copy” button you can paste the information in its entirety to the forum.

     

    Note: Never post Product Keys to the internet or these forums

     

    Hth

    dave

     

    Monday, May 29, 2006 5:34 AM
  •  Dave MS wrote:

    I was wondering if you are currently experiencing any Validation issues at this time or was that a one time validation you mentioned? The Genuine control will ocassionally be updated prompting for a re-validation. This is to include the newest blocked keys and ensure the system has not been updated with an invalid key.

    Dave, first let me answer to your question - I am not experiencing any validation issues currently, my system runs as expected and I can use WU. I am sure the whole mechanism was implemented by MS in good faith.

    Now let me rephrase mine:

    ...BUT I do not understand your argument "to include the newest blocked keys etc." surely my key was valid when I activated my windows 5 years ago, how could it be suddenly added to the blocked keys - i assumed the activation would prevent other users  from installing my windows (using my license) on their system? Doesn't it make more sense to store valid keys and grant the activation on these once and only, rather than periodically doubting your legal customers?

    So my question remains, why validate me again, having done it twice already (once on activation, and then again last year with the Genuine Check tool)? This doesn't send the right message to the end user: "we have checked you today, we might check you again in 2 weeks time, see if your System is still legal", like you're hoping maybe next time it might fail or something - what's the point?

    This makes it appear like there is a hidden agenda, introducing other, hidden control mechanisms through the back door.

    When I buy a retail version and then activate it shouldn't I as customer and MS as a software creator assume my Installation is licensed and legal?

    looking forward to your answers,
    yours sincerely,
      Axel

    Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:25 AM
  • Realraven200,

    I posted this in another thread but it might answer your question:

    "The two telltale indicators on the report are these two lines:
    Genuine Validation Status: Invalid Product Key
    Windows License Type: Volume

    "Invalid Product Key (PK) means that the PK was never one officially assigned by MS.  PKs can be "manufactured" by key generator programs once a cracker has reverse engineered the alogorithm used to generate the PK in the first place.  The Key is accepted by the algorithm inside Windows that allows it to be installed.  However, unless MS itself generated the key and put it on the active key list, it is a counterfeit key.  Every time Windows Genuine Advantage runs, it double-checks the key that was used to install that copy of XP against the "known good" list and the "known bad" list.  If that key drops off the known good list and/or is added to the known bad list, that installation of XP will be declared invalid and counterfeit."

    "There are many license types that MS issues for XP, some of which are based on time.  You might say that some organizations "rent" their copies of XP since they are set to expire on a certain date as established by the licensing contract.  Other organizations such as Universities have contracts with MS that allow students to use MS software as long as they are enrolled.  Given the transient nature of these possibilities, It is necessary to check for proper licensing on a very frequent basis."

    Tuesday, May 30, 2006 1:10 PM
  • Dear Dan,

    reading your message with a lot of good will (and I repeat my validation status is Genuine, Type retail, and I am able to use Windows Update) - if I interpret this correctly then MS doesn't make a difference between volume licensed keys and per user keys.

    So they always default to the AssUM ption "you have rented the software from us" even with those customers who bought retail / oem versions. which feels a bit like they could at any time revoke my right to use the operating system that they granted me to use for life in the original EULA.

    I would prefer if they made that distinction ONCE and then wouldn't keep resubmitting and rechecking my license number, this still feels wrong. Like being _constantly_ stopped by the police and asked for papers. Besides it wastes some of my sparse bandwidth.

    However a technical alternative solution would be possible - look up my validation key once, find it in the database as being retail and not restricted / rented and then configure the Genuine Check tool not to bother checking anymore (or at least say for 3 months).
      Should somebody else use my activation key on a different PC (the functionality of this is already built into windows XP), deny them activation and challenge to a phone call. Do you understand why this feels wrong now?

    greetings, realraven

    I have my copy of windows installed on only ONE PC. Nobody else has ever even laid his hands on my CD or got a so much as a glance on the barcode sticker. why am i treated with contempt?


    Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:57 PM
  • Realraven2000,

    I just looked over the FAQ to be sure.

    Your computer is checked for validation only when you manually go to Windows Update, Microsoft Update, or Microsoft downloads to get updates or downloads.  (Your Office installation if you have one is checked when you go to Microsoft Update or Office downloads.)

    It's a quid-pro-quo arrangement--if you want something from MS, they want something from you--to make sure you're using a legitimate copy of XP.

    So, if you don't visit those web sites for the next six months, your computer would not face the validation process for the next six months.  Automatic updates, if enabled on your computer, receive security-related updates regardless of whether the XP installation is genuine or not.

    The automatic updates process might push out a new verison of the Notification program to computers that are running a counterfeit copy of XP, so those computers may see the notification being turned on again if it was turned off.  (What good is a nag screen if it doesn't annoy you? )

    Perhaps the MS reps will see your post and transmit your concerns to the higher-ups.  Maybe it is feasible to configure retail product keys with a more lasting "get out of jail free" card as compared with the more transient nature of the other varieties of licenses.

    Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:23 PM