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PP1: Can we get the same quality of Energy-Mgmt back which worked already in XP Prof ? RRS feed

  • Question

  • Actually I simply want what I already got when I used simply two XP Professional PCs connected via Windows-Network.

     

    One was setup with all the drives and sharing all the drives within the network. This machine was setup with all the energy-setiings as described in the manual of LIghtsout. Addionally, it has been setup in Energy-Savings to hibernate after 30 min Idle.

     

    So, Windows send it asleep and that was it. I tried that with WHS, but it woke immediately up as you know...I understand that MS delivers a patch to solve it to Siemens, but why not to the rest of the paying customers ?

     

    On the XP-Solution: If now a PC wanted to access a mounted (shared) drive, autmatically (without sending a magic packet manually), the XP-Server woke up, served you and went after 30 minutes of idle to sleep...and stayed sleeping...it worked like a charm. Plus: Hard Drives where only swithced on, when needed, Windows Energy Mgmt send them to sleep after 30 minutes as well. If you wanted to access, it could take 10 seconds until everything was reaction, but that was fine.

    So, instead of coming up with fancing features, can we please get the basics right first ? A state of the art power-mgmt is for a file-server quiet important these days.

     

    Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:42 AM

Answers

  • You can submit new suggestions to http://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer.  Please search before submitting a new suggestion, as duplicate entries are a pain to track and reconcile.  Also, the more specific you are in your actual suggestion - the better - as it helps the product team understand what you want, why you want it and what it might take to implement something that addresses the suggestion.

     

     

     

    Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:38 PM

All replies

  • Please have a look at Announcement: LightsOut 0.7.0 available

     

    NOTE you will have to disable SBCORE service to get this working properly: PowerSwitch - automatic power down and wake up and  http://forums.speedguide.net/showpost.php?p=1866152&postcount=11.

    Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:15 PM
    Moderator
  • I know lightsout...it is a step into the right direction, but still inferior to the way two XP Prof. machines worked before.

     

    The difference is: Lightsout will power the WHS on even if no data will be accessed by the clients. The XP Prof setting only powered the server on if you send a request for data - automatically and only if really an access happened. So, you cold work with your clients as normal PCs and they would let the Server asleep if no data from it has been requested, which was oftenly the case.

     

    -------------------

     

    Ok I had a conversation wit the author of lightsout. He made a good remark:

     

    "I assume, that you have not ticked the option "Only allow management stations to bring the computer out of standby" on your NIC in your Windows XP machine? Without this option, any IP packet sent to this machine will do a wake up. This works perfectly in your 2 machines scenario above.

    But with WHS you have a connector running on each client machine. This connector tries to locate and connect to your WHS and this will wake up your WHS. So I recommend to enable this option to prevent this kind of wake up. Some routers also scan the network for devices and in turn will wake up a WHS if this option is not enabled."

     

    So, I guess what I would like to see from MS in PP1:

    - The Anti-30min-Wake-up-Pathc which you already delievered to Siemens available for everybody

    - A Hibernation-Mode which starts and stops services as needed (like Lightsout does)

    - A modified client-software which does not wake up the WHS always, if above explained setting is used (so that the option "Only allow management stations to bring the computer out of standby" can be disabled)

     

    I guess than we would have the solution. Should not be to difficult...and would be a true green solution...

    Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:38 PM
  •  multiblitz wrote:

    I know lightsout...it is a step into the right direction, but still inferior to the way two XP Prof. machines worked before.

     

    The difference is: Lightsout will power the WHS on even if no data will be accessed by the clients. The XP Prof setting only powered the server on if you send a request for data - automatically and only if really an access happened. So, you cold work with your clients as normal PCs and they would let the Server asleep if no data from it has been requested, which was oftenly the case.

     

    -------------------

     

    Ok I had a conversation wit the author of lightsout. He made a good remark:

     

    "I assume, that you have not ticked the option "Only allow management stations to bring the computer out of standby" on your NIC in your Windows XP machine? Without this option, any IP packet sent to this machine will do a wake up. This works perfectly in your 2 machines scenario above.

    But with WHS you have a connector running on each client machine. This connector tries to locate and connect to your WHS and this will wake up your WHS. So I recommend to enable this option to prevent this kind of wake up. Some routers also scan the network for devices and in turn will wake up a WHS if this option is not enabled."

     

    So, I guess what I would like to see from MS in PP1:

    - The Anti-30min-Wake-up-Pathc which you already delievered to Siemens available for everybody

    - A Hibernation-Mode which starts and stops services as needed (like Lightsout does)

    - A modified client-software which does not wake up the WHS always, if above explained setting is used (so that the option "Only allow management stations to bring the computer out of standby" can be disabled)

     

    I guess than we would have the solution. Should not be to difficult...and would be a true green solution...

     

    Not gonna happen in PP1 (the code is effectively already done).

    Thursday, April 24, 2008 7:09 PM
    Moderator
  • You can submit new suggestions to http://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer.  Please search before submitting a new suggestion, as duplicate entries are a pain to track and reconcile.  Also, the more specific you are in your actual suggestion - the better - as it helps the product team understand what you want, why you want it and what it might take to implement something that addresses the suggestion.

     

     

     

    Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:38 PM
  •  multiblitz wrote:

    Ok I had a conversation wit the author of lightsout. He made a good remark:

     

    "I assume, that you have not ticked the option "Only allow management stations to bring the computer out of standby" on your NIC in your Windows XP machine? Without this option, any IP packet sent to this machine will do a wake up. This works perfectly in your 2 machines scenario above

     

    Yeah well, if you don't even bother to read the manual. This point and also the sbcore service are mentioned in the chapter REQUIREMENTS

     

     multiblitz wrote:

    So, I guess what I would like to see from MS in PP1:

    - The Anti-30min-Wake-up-Pathc which you already delievered to Siemens available for everybody

     

    It's not a patch, just have a look at the links I provided concerning SBCORE service.

     

     multiblitz wrote:

    - A modified client-software which does not wake up the WHS always, if above explained setting is used (so that the option "Only allow management stations to bring the computer out of standby" can be disabled)

     

    That shouldn't be very difficult to create for MS; client could have option to startup in dormant mode, with option to activate manually from tray icon.

     

    For now you can simply disable automatic startup of the client software. You can then start it manually C:\Program Files\Windows Home ServerWHSTrayApp.exe, and / or schedule it to run when you want the client to run backup

     

    I agree there's certainly room for improvement, however when taking all these points together it shouldn't be that difficult to build a solution that's pretty close to what you want

    Friday, April 25, 2008 3:16 AM
    Moderator
  •  

    I have read the manual and stopped sbcore services. Nevertheless it is for me an un-official workaround for a bug which MS has left over in WHS. So I think to expect an official patch is not too much expected.

     

    Thanks for hint on starting the tray application manually.

    Friday, April 25, 2008 1:58 PM
  • The issue with SBSCORE is one left over from the base OS, not a Windows Home Server issue per se. But yes, I think it would be a good thing if a future update includes that patch.

    Regarding the broader issue of putting the server in a low power state and using Wake On LAN: I have pointed this out in other threads on this subject, but I'll repeat myself. Wake On LAN is not a reliable protocol, in any sense of the word "reliable." There are several major reasons why I believe the WHS team decided not to support/use WOL on the server.
    • Hardware support is half-baked (at best); I have one fairly recent motherboard at home that doesn't support WOL at all, and I have another that doesn't support "magic packets", instead waking on any packet that reaches the network interface (including things like NetBIOS broadcast packets).
    • Driver support isn't much better.
    • Wake On LAN uses UDP broadcast (typically) to function. By it's nature, this is an unreliable protocol, in that there is no way to tell that the packet was received and is being acted on short of waiting a while then trying to access the remote resource. It's also an insecure protocol, but that's a topic for another day.
    • There is no support for WOL in Windows. The power management tab in Device Management is part of the NIC driver, not part of the OS, and it only configures how the NIC deals with an incoming packet. There's nothing anywhere to generate magic packets.
    In order for Windows to properly access a share on a server that's in a low-power state requiring WOL, several things would have to happen/be true:
    1. The client computer would have to cache share information, so that it could be persisted even in the absence of the server on which the share resides. This is needed to even see the server shares while the server is asleep.
    2. When a user accesses a share, Windows would have to send a magic packet to the server.
    3. The client PC would have to wait a reasonable period of time (30 seconds, perhaps?) and then try to access the share.
    4. The client would have to Do The Right Thing™ if the share was unreachable. (What's the right thing? pop up an error? Try again?)
    All of the above is "solvable". A motivated enthusiast can get over every one of the objections I've raised. However, the aggregate, given that Microsoft needs to deliver a product that will support and work for everyone, not just for a few people with the right hardware/software/network configurations, becomes large enough that the team chose not to tackle the issue.

    All that said, if you feel strongly that some sort of power saving features beyond what's in the OS today should be built in to WHS, you should (as Todd has said) post a suggestion on Connect. Try to be specific about the use cases and how you see it working. Just "I want better power management" is almost a given even in the US. Smile
    Friday, April 25, 2008 3:41 PM
    Moderator
  • Everything that Ken said about WOL is correct.  This is not a consumer-ready solution.  Enthusiasts and Tinkerers can leverage the add-ins and other ways to take advantage of various scenarios, but do not expect this functionality to be included in the base WIndows Home Server product as it creates more problems than it solves.

     

     

    Friday, April 25, 2008 4:55 PM