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How to start anew with the Sunset version? RRS feed

  • Question

  • Scenario:

    1) My existing Money that I restored to migrate to new computer in Oct 2014 crashed 2 days ago - do not know if the size of the file at 21 mb has anything to do with it - but it would not open after entering correct password. 

    I was able to open the Sample mny from the Sunset version (the mny file is dated in 2009, is this correct?  When I tried Level 2 repair from the Sample file to repair the crashed one,  Money told me the utility cannot repair the file. 

    Despite I have done backup periodically  to an USB drive (for whatever reason when I initially did the backup, Money would not back up to the D drive but would back up to the USB), I was not able to find any back up file other than the one that I put on it in the Oct 2014 migration, no matter what method I tried to search them.  So it seems the Oct 2014 is the only mbf that can be used.  It would be a real chore to reconstruct the gap between Oct 2014 and Mar 2015 for the detailed levels I keep the records.  Besides. the file contains data from 2003 - I normally only refer back 2 to 3 years from present, and of ten am for curiosity than for necessity,

    2) In light of the above, I am inclined to start anew as if the first time to use Money, with the sample file in the Sunset version for the time being.  If and when I have time to do the meticulous reconstruction, I would slowly do it.

    My questions are:

    A) Can I keep both MNY files - the Oct 2014 one, and the new one started from Sample File on the same computer but under DIFFERENT FOLDER, hence different path when accessing them?

    B) I have only done Restore from the old file to the new program.  If I dont have any file to restore, how do I build my new data file?  By just establishing accounts in the Sample File?  I tried to delete the accounts in the Sample File, but when I reopened the file, all the deleted accounts reappeared. 

    So how do I use the Sunset Version to rebuild a file for my own accounts without using a backup file to restore?

    C) One option could be that I create a new file that only contains last 3 years records and save it in a different folder different name.  I suppose this can be done by doing lengthy deletion of data started from 2003?  This would give me a much slimmed down file and then I can use it to perform restore. 

    To temporary fill the gap I would enter dummy adjustments to the accounts so their balances would be in sync with current reality instead of the old data in Oct 2014.  The adjustment account(s) would be dummy accounts set up under Asset as a catch all for all the in-out entries.

    Current data would be entered as actual data, with the beginning balances brought to match the real things thru the adjustments.

    With the wisdom from the community, I am hoping to hear suggestions from anyone who come upon this and I truly appreciate your inputs.

    Thank You very much for all your helps. 

    Tuesday, March 31, 2015 2:04 PM

All replies

  • You did not ask, but it is important that your Money files or backup files are *not* in the ProgramFiles or Windows folders or maybe some other system folder. I don't know about I386  which I think you mentioned in your earlier thread.  If you have done that in the past, that would possibly explain and solve the missing files.

    Money allows you to specify where each of the data files is stored.

    You want to make sure that your Money and backup files are moved to a spot that you will have full privileges to, such as
    Documents.  If they are within \ProgramFiles or \Windows, Win7 (or Vista or I presume Win8) will create an  copy of the file in a different place for the user to use, unless the user explicitly right-clicks at launch and choose RunAsAdministrator that time.That is the "virtual store" or "virtualization" if you want to search that out.  See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927387 scenario 2. With Money it can get exasperating; you save a change in your file, and then the change is not there when you go to search.

    Now you don't have to put your files in Documents. You could put those files in a different drive, or in a separate folder that you create at root level as Administrator but don't have to run as Administrator to access.

    I think the searches that I described in your earlier thread should have turned up the missing *.mbf files even if they were written to the Virtual Store. You still could check out where Scenario 2 takes you.


    1) Yes. I had not noticed that date:
    07/17/2009  02:20 PM         7,704,576 sample.mny

    2A) Yes. I might put both files into your documents folder, but give each a unique name.  One way to select which file you want to use is to click on each file to open, or to have a shortcut to each Money file to open the one that you want. To switch while inside Click File, and choose the file near the bottom of the list that you want to switch to. Make sure each has a unique location for the backup files. I would make the scheduled backup go to a USB flash drive.

    2B)File->New->NewFile

    2C) I like to make a single compensating entry in each cash-tracking account rather than use the initial balance. It is easy to see or change. Just date it earlier than any other transaction.


    Tuesday, March 31, 2015 2:47 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks a lot for the very helpful reply. 

    I log in as Administrator, because this is a stand alone at home computer.  DELL seems to default the "owner" to Administrator at set up.  but I will try again from that route to see if I could find the Virtual files.

    The data files are in Document as they should be - both the Oct 2014 and the 3/30/15 corrupted one.  I am just extremely lost on WHY I could not see any of my back up files even I did save them, to a USB no less.  Could not find them on USB either.  I suspect the BackUp process has long been corrupted - I would have known that had I checked the backup file status after each backup.  In the past I backed up to drive D and then copied it to USB so I always checked.  But since the migration and it would not let me save to D, I just use USB WITHOUT checking the save went OK.  My Bad!

    Regarding 2C) - how do you balance your "books" when using a single compensating entry which would need to have a counter offset to make the effect neutral, no?

    Or this would relate to using the existing Oct 2014 working file then making a single compensating entry to each account?  How about create a slimmed down file that only contains data from 2011?  Can this be done?

    Again, much thanks for the help.

    Can't believe so many of us hanging on the Money but I cannot find a suitable replacement that I like.

    Tuesday, March 31, 2015 3:23 PM
  • >I log in as Administrator, because this is a stand alone at home computer.

    Running in an account which is an Administrator is different from running as Administrator. If you search for
    windows 8.1 "run as administrator"   account then you will find some references. I did not find one that explained it concisely, but there is probably such a page.


    >The data files are in Document as they should be - both the Oct 2014 and the 3/30/15 corrupted one.

    Ditto for the Tools->Settings->BackupOptions settings two places.

    >I am just extremely lost on WHY.

    No idea. Sorry.

    >Regarding 2C) - how do you balance your "books" when using a single compensating entry which
    >would need to have a counter offset to make the effect neutral, no?

    I use my own balancing methods which involve getting the Money balances to match those from the financial institution and tracking down any discrepancy.

    Money is a single entry booking system, rather than a double entry system. So I am not sure where you propose that a counter offset would be needed when you place a single beginning compensating entry in each account. It works the same as setting the initial balance in the account details, but it is just handier and more visible.

    >Or this would relate to using the existing Oct 2014 working file then making a single
    >compensating entry to each account?  How about create a slimmed down file that only contains data
    >from 2011?  Can this be done?

    Did not follow that. What you could do is to start with your older file with all of the later stuff missing, put a compensating entry for the missing time for each cash account (now the date would be before the new entries but after the old entries. Then add the new stuff.

    But for just 2011 info, I can suggest a customized report. You can view a report, right click into the report and choose Copy. Then in a spreadsheet choose Paste. You can then do spreadsheet stuff on your numbers.

    There is a feature that lets you remove bank, credit card, and more entries from before a certain date. If you Archive and specify a date of Jan 1 2011, then older entries will be removed from the Money file. Investment account entries are not trimmed by that process. The resulting file with Archive in the name is really the old file as it existed before Archiving. Archive does what it does, and that may not be what you would like it to do.

    I expect you have been motivated to review your backup processes recently, and if your hard drive crashed now, you would not lose your critical information. You can put stuff into a cloud drive such as OneDrive that would give you some off-site backup.

    Tuesday, March 31, 2015 4:10 PM
    Moderator
  • A lot of the stuff are in MSFT's cloud server.  All the "need to keep" old stuff were put on an external drive at the time I bought this new computer.  The one and the only stuff that I use on daily basis and not properly back up is the Money.  Sigh.

    When I mean 2011 I mean from 2011 onward, not just the particular year.  Sorry for the miscommunication.

    May be a good time to wean me from overly relying on this tool to keep track of all the financial records and make sure they match the banks' as well as keep track of all the cash flows, income and expenses.  The majority of the time I use Money as a double-entry system but yes I understand what you mean, Money is not designed for that.

    An example would be, I record all the expenses spent on a trip - from the initial booking of flights to all the spending during the trip whether with credit card or with cash, under the category opened for this particular trip.  It serves 2 purposes - 1) the credit card spend and the cash spend are fully accounted for - i.e. matched with the card's records and reduced cash in hand.  2) I can generate a report by category and see how much costs of each trip.  One of the periodically look back for a few years is for the curiosity to see how much we spent on a particular trip, or a particular year.  Travel expenses are the biggest spend item in our household by the way.  We have multiple long trips a year and I try to keep the total spend within a perceived range.

    I understand what you mean by the first entry of compensatory entry now.  I think I would go this method - set up New File with the Sample MNY.  This would be the simplest and probably works best for the limited time I have to work on this. Just came back from a long trip Mar 17th and finally recorded all the expenses the night before the next day the file would not open.  Thought about to do back up after the entry but forgot about it late at night.  Though I am not sure it would save my skin as all the previous back ups are "missing".  Leaving on Apr 19 for another long trip and haven't filed tax return yet. lol.

    Thanks for the patience to listen and help.  Very much appreciate it.

    Tuesday, March 31, 2015 5:31 PM
  • I really would have Agent Ransack look for *.mbf
    Look in Local hard drives.

    Long shot idea: did you replace your hard drive recently and clone the old to the new in the process? The old drive would maybe have a useful backup.

    Maybe your experience will motivate others to check their backups. Here is my Money Plus backup suggestion:

    In M+: Tools->Settings->BackupSettings
    I suggest checking
     x Automatically backup my Money file every time I close Money
      Save in [a place on your hard drive ]. It is best to Browse to
         a location rather than typing the path.
       x Ask me before backing up each time*
       x Compress Backup Files
       Keep only the _8_ most recent backup files [adjust to taste]

     x Perform scheduled backups every _28_ days
      Save in [a USB flash drive location]
       x Ask me before backing up each time*
       x Compress Backup Files
       Keep only the _4_ most recent backup files [adjust to taste]

    Then periodically, perhaps each month or three, copy your latest
    backup (uniquely named by Money) to a CDR or a different flash drive.

    * The reason I have Money ask me, is that I don't want to back up
    each time I exit.  If I went into Money 5 times in a day, I would
    not want to back up 5 times, nor would I want to delete 5 other
    backup files.  You will be given the choice to BackUpNow or to
    Postpone.



    Tuesday, March 31, 2015 5:51 PM
    Moderator
  • No. The computer was bought last October because the old one's graphic chip (a dual heads) died.  I should have bought a Win7 version but foolishly bought a Win8.1 after being told 8.1 has made significant improvements over 8...  The learning curve from XP was steep to be honest but I eventually manage.

    So there is no clone HD for anything on the new computer.

    Point me the direction to find Agent Ransack so I would give it a try. 

    I actually back up more frequently than 28 days - I normally back up after some really heavy data entries.  The downfall is I for whatever reason, have not checked to make sure it is really backed up, or for that matter, I could readily see the back up mbf file.  Like I said, the method employed on the old computer literally ensured me to check as I would need to make a copy from D to the external USB.  Alas, moot point now.

    Yes I have Money ask me, and I foolishly postponed it in the past 10 days when I was updating the data.  I should have done so after I finished the major entries from trip and from some heavy financial activities.  I didn't and then the file crashed the next morning. Really dumb.

    Tuesday, March 31, 2015 6:46 PM
  • Point me the direction to find Agent Ransack so I would give it a try. 

    https://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack
    Tuesday, March 31, 2015 7:25 PM
    Moderator
  • Carl,

    I think I MIGHT finally find where the backup files might be stored. 

    Upon looking at the path of the back up of the Oct 2014 file,  it is saved somewhere as C:\users\xxxx\Documents\My Money Backup.  So it is on the C drive not the D drive but still under Documents?  I am confused.

    Why the above have happened I do not know.  Obviously the back up has gone to that location on the C Drive all along versus going to the USB as I thought!

    When I closed that file and used the SAME path to back up, I then CANNOT find the back up file under D Documents

    The only way I can find the file again is to manually type the whole string of the path in the search box.  I could not see it under documents.

    Why is that?  This is so frustrating because the backup file is definitely on the computer but would not show up nor with the search *mbf function.

    I also realize the highly possible scenario - that is, when I messed around with the restoring function (and was able to restore the Oct 2014 data), upon back up, it could very well REPLACE whatever hidden file of the latest before the crash.   So it is a mission in vain trying to recover the latest 2015 March backup, I am afraid.

    Now I need to understand my backup file is a now show or invisible on my computer! 



    • Edited by FLLMIA Friday, April 3, 2015 4:18 PM
    Friday, April 3, 2015 3:33 PM
  • 1) I think I will remove ALL the existing Money files from the computer, then completely start anew with the Sunset.

    2) BUT I need to find the hidden files first.  May need to resort to Agent Ransack's help.  However I am not comfortable to install it.

    3) I also need to make sure future back up goes to a location that I can READILY SEE under Documents.  This is VERY IMPORTANT.

    Carl or anyone, can you help, especially 3)?

    Thank you very very much.

    Friday, April 3, 2015 4:27 PM
  • I am very pleased that you have solved the problem.

    I don't know how all of that works. I don't use a complicated system. I would keep the two level thing where you have an an account which is an administrator account, but  is not the user "Administrator". It serves as  protection. There is  lot written on the topic.

    Did you use Agent Ransack to search, or some other method?

    I know you are making extra backups onto other media now. The best way to get the backup file to be where you want is to Browse when you select the locations. That leaves the least possibility of problem.


    Friday, April 3, 2015 4:29 PM
    Moderator
  • No, I typed in the full string of the path that I saw on Money - halfway thru the typing, window found the file which it does not find when using the *mbf method.

    I suspect if I have figured this earlier and just type the path, I MIGHT be able to find the one that was backed up last time in Mid Feb. 2015.  Alas, because I did a back up with the Oct 14 file, I suspect it has replaced he Feb 2015 one which is now forever lost.  Hence I decide to no longer search it but instead build a new one from scratch using the compensatory entries, and start with Mar 2015 for the time being - if and when I have more time, I would try to reconstruct the Jan and Feb 2015 and put them back.

    Agree.  Definitely need to use the browse function AND always check whether the back up actually is visible in the location you think it should be.  Had I used the old method (back up to D, then copy to USB) I would have avoided this fiasco.

    The best feature I like Money is the reports which if I need to find out the YTD payments to certain payee or in certain category I can use the report to get a complete picture.  Of course having account balances match to the financial institutions' records also is great but this function can be done via spreadsheet. 

    Still want to figure out HOW I can become "user Administrator" because I am the only person uses this computer, I should be able to access everything.

    DELL by default sets up the "owner" of the computer as Administration at the first usage.  Apparently that is not enough.

    Saturday, April 4, 2015 12:51 AM
  • Administrative permissions in Windows 8/8.1

    Standard home users have administrative permissions by default since they are needed for some routine tasks.

    For some tasks, an elevated command prompt is required. Right click on the Windows icon on the task bar or use the Winkey+x shortcut to get the option.

    There are many options available to administrators which are turned off by default on home systems. These can be turned on as required.

    Backup location

    You should always check program default settings, since these may not be what you want. You would have been prompted about backups and shown the default location which was to be used the first time you exited Sunset.

    In my Money 2005 UK the setting can be seen and changed at Tools-Settings-Backup options. It is probably the same in Sunset.

    Saturday, April 4, 2015 1:03 PM

  • Still want to figure out HOW I can become "user Administrator" because I am the only person uses this computer, I should be able to access everything.

    That would be true if you never connected to the Internet, never installed software, never received any emails.  Once you've connected to the outside world malware can get on you machine and use your Administrator access to make malicious changes to your computer.  You do not want to have automatic access to all functions. 
    Saturday, April 4, 2015 5:53 PM