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Cannot figure out the change in ranking RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hello

    I have several websites thet rank well in MSN.  One of my websites ranked very well in MSN until 11 December where every keyword that ranked well was dropped.  I have read many of the threads in this forum in an effort to understand what might have gone wrong and I am at a complete loss.  So I am posting here in the hope that someone else can see what I cannot.

    My site is still indexed in MSN (2 pages only), so I assume it is not banned.  Also, the MSN bot is still regularly visiting the site.

    My website is http://www.bathroom-vanity.com.au/ It ranks well behind the following sites.  Read the comments below carefully...

    One of my keyword phrase is "bathroom vanities" .  I have looked at the websites that rank well for this keyword phrase in an attempt to learn what they are doing that helps them succeed and I am evem more confused that ever!  As a web designer, I am surprised that these sites rank as well as they do.  How can this be?  Let me explain...

    #1 & #2- Looks reasonably well structured to rank well but nothing special that I can see.  Only 3 sites linking to this page (one being the home page - yes, this is a sub-page).  Links to this site do not have the keyword phrase in anchor text.

    #3 & #4 - Keyword phrase does not appear in the web page.  There are no backlinks to this page.  The title is not well structured.  How did this rank well?

    #5 - A page with list of products, keyword phrase appears only once but each word in the phrase appears numerous times.  I have product list pages that do not rank at all.

    #6 - Keyword phrase does not exist in this page.  Keyword does not exist in the title.  Keyword does not exist in the meta keywords tag.  Keyword does not exist in any anchor text. 

    #8 - Keyword phrase does not exist in page, title , meta tags, or anchor text.  This page does have a number of backlings but does not use the keyword phrase in anchor text.

    #9 - Same as #8 except no backlinks.

    #10 - same as #9. 

    Most of the above pages are site sub-pages. 

    Please note - a search on "bathroom vanity" produces exactly the same results.

    Finally, search on "bathroom vanities" (in inverted comma's).  You would expect to find pages with this text wouldn't you?  Look at #5 - no keyword phrase anywhere on the page (including title). 

    I apologise for the lengthy message, I just could not think how to explain the confusiuon without examples.

    Can anyone explain:
    1.  Why my website does not rank when it once did?
    2.  Why the above websites rank highest for a search on "bathroom vanities"?

    Much appreciated

    Chanetsa
    Monday, January 7, 2008 5:15 AM

Answers

  •  Chanetsa wrote:
    Hello

    I have several websites thet rank well in MSN.  One of my websites ranked very well in MSN until 11 December where every keyword that ranked well was dropped.  I have read many of the threads in this forum in an effort to understand what might have gone wrong and I am at a complete loss.  So I am posting here in the hope that someone else can see what I cannot.

    My site is still indexed in MSN (2 pages only), so I assume it is not banned.  Also, the MSN bot is still regularly visiting the site.

    My website is http://www.bathroom-vanity.com.au/ It ranks well behind the following sites.  Read the comments below carefully...

    One of my keyword phrase is "bathroom vanities" .  I have looked at the websites that rank well for this keyword phrase in an attempt to learn what they are doing that helps them succeed and I am evem more confused that ever!  As a web designer, I am surprised that these sites rank as well as they do.  How can this be?  Let me explain...

     

    I am not sure what the problems is.  I see you ranking number one for the keywords you mentioned.  I see six pages indexed overall.  Please run the query below.

     

    http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=bathroom+vanities&mkt=en-us&scope=&FORM=LIVSOP


     

     Chanetsa wrote:

    #1 & #2- Looks reasonably well structured to rank well but nothing special that I can see.  Only 3 sites linking to this page (one being the home page - yes, this is a sub-page).  Links to this site do not have the keyword phrase in anchor text.

    #3 & #4 - Keyword phrase does not appear in the web page.  There are no backlinks to this page.  The title is not well structured.  How did this rank well?

    #5 - A page with list of products, keyword phrase appears only once but each word in the phrase appears numerous times.  I have product list pages that do not rank at all.

    #6 - Keyword phrase does not exist in this page.  Keyword does not exist in the title.  Keyword does not exist in the meta keywords tag.  Keyword does not exist in any anchor text. 

    #8 - Keyword phrase does not exist in page, title , meta tags, or anchor text.  This page does have a number of backlings but does not use the keyword phrase in anchor text.

    #9 - Same as #8 except no backlinks.

    #10 - same as #9. 

     

    Given your number one position, I can't really comment on the other sites.  

     

     

     Chanetsa wrote:

    Most of the above pages are site sub-pages. 

    Please note - a search on "bathroom vanity" produces exactly the same results.

    Finally, search on "bathroom vanities" (in inverted comma's).  You would expect to find pages with this text wouldn't you?  Look at #5 - no keyword phrase anywhere on the page (including title). 

    I apologise for the lengthy message, I just could not think how to explain the confusiuon without examples.

    Can anyone explain:
    1.  Why my website does not rank when it once did?

    We regularly re-rank sites as we continue to crawl. If we tweak or modify the algorithm at all you may see changes.  

     

     Chanetsa wrote:

    2.  Why the above websites rank highest for a search on "bathroom vanities"?

     

    If you are looking for criteria on how we rank you can view the following blog post...

    http://blogs.msdn.com/webmaster/archive/2008/01/11/i-m-not-ranking-in-live-search-what-can-i-do.aspx

     

    When I looked at some of the other sites with your keywords I see sites that have a lot of backlinks that rank well.  Your site has some but could use more.  I recommend looking at some of the link building techniques mentioned in the article.  Look for industry sites that will give you a link.  I would also try and leverage the power of search engine local directories if you have a show room.  This build credibility for your site

     

    Hope this helps a bit.

     

    Jeremiah

    Monday, January 28, 2008 2:48 AM

All replies

  • Chanetsa,

     

    I hope you don't mind that I tag along on your post.  I am experiencing the same thing with my website.  Before the release of Live Search I was ranking in the top 2 spots under the searches "Miami DJs" and "Orlando DJs."  After the release, the rankings seemed to back-track to an earlier crawl and not change.  Although my website is still indexed, it doesn't show up for miles!

     

    An answer or a reference to an earlier post with useful info is greatly appreciated.

     

    Tuesday, January 8, 2008 6:35 AM
  • Hello DJ

    I am glad you have joined the discussion, it demonstrates that I am not alone.

    Have you had a look at the websites that MSN ranks most highly for your keywords to try and figure out what it is about them that MSN likes?  In other posts on this forum, the moderators direct people to Guidelines for successful indexing. Have you had a look at these guidelines?  Did they help answer your questions?

    Thanks

    Chanetsa
    Tuesday, January 8, 2008 9:41 PM
  • I have to say that I am dissapointed in the response to my questions on this forum.  Like it is for many others, running online businesses is my livelihood.  So these questions are important to me and I am sure to many others like me.  This forum is full of people asking what happened to their rankings.

    Can anyone suggest another forum where I might get some help?

    Thanks

    Chanetsa
    Friday, January 11, 2008 11:12 PM
  • This is what has happend based on my experience:

     

    If your site is new - less than 2 years old - and it doesn't have backlinks from sites such as .edu then there is no hope for it and it doesn't matter if your site is very relevant/informative/original etc...

     

    Now check the age of the sites above yours and you'll see that they are most probably older than yours or small chance that they have backlinks from a very hand selected sites that Live likes them. You will not be able to check the back links to theirs because Live has disabelled the command.

     

     

    Saturday, January 12, 2008 12:14 AM
  • The same thing happened to my site and my site is 4 years old. Granted, I do not have backlinks from sites such as .edu. I have backlings from other sites, from which only one was picked up by search live. Lower numbers or quality of backlings could explain lower positioning by one search page or so. But it cannot explain the difference in positioning by thousands of search pages. Unless the rankings are done only by backlings and relevance is ignored entirely. Most of business web sites with this problem in this forum are targeting very specific and not so general key phrases and there should not be any reason for web sites with irrelevant content to show up in search miles ahead, just because of backlinks.

    Microsoft development should provide tools to these forum moderators to research exact reason for huge ranking difference, case by case. There must be or developers could provide them with some tools to trace it, log or data, giving them detail information on ranking decision reasoning, in comparison to keyword ranking of other sites, which would provide the answers. That way they would not need to resort only to generic answers and it would help them to debug issues with live search quicker. Without it they are in a position only to observe and guess as everyone here is trying, observing and guessing and potentially wasting a lot of time. Considering that they do not have such tools, they are doing a great job. In meanwhile it is a mystery or magic or role of dice.

    Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:15 AM
  • I am looking forward to hearing from the forum moderator on this forum.  I see they are active but as yet have not commented on this post. 

    Is there a forum admin willing to comment on the first post in this thread?

    Thanks

    Chanetsa
    Sunday, January 27, 2008 12:08 AM
  •  Chanetsa wrote:
    Hello

    I have several websites thet rank well in MSN.  One of my websites ranked very well in MSN until 11 December where every keyword that ranked well was dropped.  I have read many of the threads in this forum in an effort to understand what might have gone wrong and I am at a complete loss.  So I am posting here in the hope that someone else can see what I cannot.

    My site is still indexed in MSN (2 pages only), so I assume it is not banned.  Also, the MSN bot is still regularly visiting the site.

    My website is http://www.bathroom-vanity.com.au/ It ranks well behind the following sites.  Read the comments below carefully...

    One of my keyword phrase is "bathroom vanities" .  I have looked at the websites that rank well for this keyword phrase in an attempt to learn what they are doing that helps them succeed and I am evem more confused that ever!  As a web designer, I am surprised that these sites rank as well as they do.  How can this be?  Let me explain...

     

    I am not sure what the problems is.  I see you ranking number one for the keywords you mentioned.  I see six pages indexed overall.  Please run the query below.

     

    http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=bathroom+vanities&mkt=en-us&scope=&FORM=LIVSOP


     

     Chanetsa wrote:

    #1 & #2- Looks reasonably well structured to rank well but nothing special that I can see.  Only 3 sites linking to this page (one being the home page - yes, this is a sub-page).  Links to this site do not have the keyword phrase in anchor text.

    #3 & #4 - Keyword phrase does not appear in the web page.  There are no backlinks to this page.  The title is not well structured.  How did this rank well?

    #5 - A page with list of products, keyword phrase appears only once but each word in the phrase appears numerous times.  I have product list pages that do not rank at all.

    #6 - Keyword phrase does not exist in this page.  Keyword does not exist in the title.  Keyword does not exist in the meta keywords tag.  Keyword does not exist in any anchor text. 

    #8 - Keyword phrase does not exist in page, title , meta tags, or anchor text.  This page does have a number of backlings but does not use the keyword phrase in anchor text.

    #9 - Same as #8 except no backlinks.

    #10 - same as #9. 

     

    Given your number one position, I can't really comment on the other sites.  

     

     

     Chanetsa wrote:

    Most of the above pages are site sub-pages. 

    Please note - a search on "bathroom vanity" produces exactly the same results.

    Finally, search on "bathroom vanities" (in inverted comma's).  You would expect to find pages with this text wouldn't you?  Look at #5 - no keyword phrase anywhere on the page (including title). 

    I apologise for the lengthy message, I just could not think how to explain the confusiuon without examples.

    Can anyone explain:
    1.  Why my website does not rank when it once did?

    We regularly re-rank sites as we continue to crawl. If we tweak or modify the algorithm at all you may see changes.  

     

     Chanetsa wrote:

    2.  Why the above websites rank highest for a search on "bathroom vanities"?

     

    If you are looking for criteria on how we rank you can view the following blog post...

    http://blogs.msdn.com/webmaster/archive/2008/01/11/i-m-not-ranking-in-live-search-what-can-i-do.aspx

     

    When I looked at some of the other sites with your keywords I see sites that have a lot of backlinks that rank well.  Your site has some but could use more.  I recommend looking at some of the link building techniques mentioned in the article.  Look for industry sites that will give you a link.  I would also try and leverage the power of search engine local directories if you have a show room.  This build credibility for your site

     

    Hope this helps a bit.

     

    Jeremiah

    Monday, January 28, 2008 2:48 AM