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[SOLVED] What Contributes to/Causes Visual Anomalies in Third-Party Applications After Changing Scaling from Medium 125% to Smaller 100%? RRS feed

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  • Hi JuliusPIV,

    Welcome to MSDN forum, but your issue is out of support range of VS General Question forum which mainly discusses the usage issue of Visual Studio IDE such as WPF & SL designer, Visual Studio Guidance Automation Toolkit, Developer Documentation and Help System and Visual Studio Editor.

    Something caused controls within third-party applications missed when you changed the scaling. You want to know the root cause even though this issue was fixed in a newer release. I recommend that you post your question in the official forum provided by the third-party application. Maybe people who are using the applications can provide some information.

    Or you can try to open a discussion thread on some development forums based on the type of the third-party apps. Maybe developers or experts there can provide some suggestions.

    Thanks,


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    • Edited by Amanda Zhu Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:50 AM edit
    Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:48 AM
  • For starters, thanks for the reply and I apologize if this isn't the most appropriate forum.

    And just so its clear, I am not asking for help in fixing the problem in these third-party applications!  I simply want to [try to] understand why this happens.  (For example: This happens when the DPI scale is not 100% and an application is written to expect that.)

    1. For Vendor #1: (a) The newer release is still in beta, so we're a little ways out from having a finished product which means we have to figure something out in the mean time. (b) This isn't fixed in the beta either.  :(
    2. For Vendor #2: They're still looking into the issue, but have not made any appreciable progress.

    My goal was to do some of the legwork, collect as much information about what typically tends causes this problem to manifest in an effort to hopefully help them hone in on the problem [quicker].

    Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving, if you celebrate that, otherwise enjoy your weekend.

    Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:55 PM
  • Hi JuliusPIV,

    I totally understand your purpose for this thread. But I am not a developer, I don’t have any idea about the possible causes of this issue. Would you mind changing this thread to Discussion Thread so that more members may participate in it?

    Of cause you can consult somewhere else as I said in my previous reply.

    Thanks,


    We are trying to better understand customer views on social support experience, so your participation in this interview project would be greatly appreciated if you have time. Thanks for helping make community forums a great place.
    Click HERE to participate the survey.

    Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:43 AM
  • Scaling takes effort. Scaling text is relatively easy (the autosize and autoscalemode properties help a little but not many apps are written in winforms) but scaling image is not (most images assets are raster not vector, and would not look good when scaled up).  With hundreds of forms and dialogs in a typical business app, it's a HUGE commitment of time and resources to go through and fix everything, for a small percentage of customers who use hi-scale monitors. It is typically a very low priority request.




    Visual C++ MVP





    Friday, November 28, 2014 4:11 PM
    Moderator
  • Might try them over here.

    https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/home?forum=winforms

     

     

     


    Regards, Dave Patrick ....
    Microsoft Certified Professional
    Microsoft MVP [Windows]

    Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties or guarantees , and confers no rights.

    Friday, November 28, 2014 5:09 PM
    Moderator
  • I'm not sure what revision you're at of FileSite, but the version we use has no problems with scaling...and we've been on this code series since 2012.

    I understand why you want to research scaling to assist the vendor, but my question to you would almost be the opposite - why is your default scale 125% instead of 100%? If it's to account for the needs of your users changing the display resolution would likely be preferred over adjusting scaling.

    Wednesday, December 31, 2014 3:43 PM
  • "So far, one vendor has acknowledged this problem and claims it has been fixed in a newer release, but they are not able to tell me the root cause & solution."

    You're paying that vendor still? Vending machines used to sell cigarettes but thy didn't manufacture cigarettes. So perhaps your vending machine didn't manufacture the software. Regardless you should bypass your vending machine and contact the software company or if the vending machine works for the company directly the appropriate office, staff, whatever at the company to ask the question. Most software comes with some button or toolstrip member which says Help and though it may take time usually there's information which can lead you back to where somebody knows something other then your vending machine spitting out their robotic answer while sucking their commission down faster than you can shake a stick at.

    As you're not a programmer it's possible that you will believe this is all there is which it is not.

    Writing DPI-Aware Desktop and Win32 Applications

    High DPI

    Automatic Scaling in Windows FormsResolving High-DPI Scaling Issues for Windows* Apps

    I don't really know what Sheng Jiang 蒋晟 is refering to regarding "but scaling image is not" as that doesn't really have much to do with a DPI aware application to my knowledge. Also I've altered my monitor and never seen any issue with the new setting displaying the image even if the image quality began to suck due to a lower setting.


    La vida loca


    Wednesday, December 31, 2014 4:02 PM
  • I'm not sure what revision you're at of FileSite, but the version we use has no problems with scaling...and we've been on this code series since 2012.

    I understand why you want to research scaling to assist the vendor, but my question to you would almost be the opposite - why is your default scale 125% instead of 100%? If it's to account for the needs of your users changing the display resolution would likely be preferred over adjusting scaling.

    Thanks for the reply - Nice to see another FileSite user!

    We're on 9.0 Update 4 (9.0.4.079), I can reproduce this problem on  8.5 SP1 Update 3 (8.5.1003.18), 8.5 SP3 Update 5 (8.5.3005.14), 8.5 SP3 Update 6 (8.5.3006.93) and 9.0 Update 6 (9.0.6.068).

    We don't see this on all of our machines, like the Lenovo X240's (1366x768) or Lenovo T420s (1600x900) or any desktop that has a 23inch+ monitor with a native resolution of 1920x1080.  However, machines like the Lenovo T440s and Lenovo X1 Carbon 2nd Gen have high resolutions, 1920x1080 & 2560x1440 respectively, but in a smaller physical screen size, and I think that's the key.  (Maybe I'm completely wrong on this.)

    As far as imaging goes: we're not forcing our machines to 125% or 100%.  The default is set/determined by Windows, presumably based on driver and hardware.  (Actual research into why needs to be done but this isn't the appropriate forum for that.  I'll pursue that alter.)  So the 5 machines I have here default to different settings:

    1. T440s = 125% (I use 2 external monitors, one of which is a Samsung 2343BWX with a resolution of 2048x1152 and at 125% everything looks absurdly large, almost cartoonish so I set it to 100%)
    2. X240 = 100%
    3. T420s = 100%
    4. X1 Carbon = 125% (although to be fair, the resolution is already so high, there's more than enough screen real-estate that users don't go down to 100% - except for me because I'm weird like that.)
    5. M83 attached to a Dell E2414H (1920x1080) = 100%


    For what its worth, HP/Autonomy got back to me:

    [..] we are aware of the scaling issues, but most can be addressed via the Dialog Editor [..] This is not specific to Update 6, and is problematic with the legacy desksite application. If you have specific screens that you need updated, beyond those that can be fixed via the Dialog Editor, please open a Support ticket and we can have those reviewed for better viewing.


    The other vendor (The Sackett Group) also got back to me on this and their response:

    Our MacPac 9 application is written in VB6. Unlike .NET, VB6 does not offer a control property like AutoScaling. This renders our controls DPI 'unaware' in some circumstances. To resolve this issue, we will need to modify our controls to make sure they are large enough to deal with a change in setting.

    So there we have it.  I got a call on this today from another user which brought the back into the foreground hence the update.  (Sorry for the delay, been on holiday!) 

    Many thanks to all who contributed - I truly greatly value your input - really!

    Wednesday, January 7, 2015 6:03 PM
  • "So far, one vendor has acknowledged this problem and claims it has been fixed in a newer release, but they are not able to tell me the root cause & solution."

    You're paying that vendor still? Vending machines used to sell cigarettes but thy didn't manufacture cigarettes. So perhaps your vending machine didn't manufacture the software. Regardless you should bypass your vending machine and contact the software company or if the vending machine works for the company directly the appropriate office, staff, whatever at the company to ask the question. Most software comes with some button or toolstrip member which says Help and though it may take time usually there's information which can lead you back to where somebody knows something other then your vending machine spitting out their robotic answer while sucking their commission down faster than you can shake a stick at.

    As you're not a programmer it's possible that you will believe this is all there is which it is not.

    Writing DPI-Aware Desktop and Win32 Applications

    High DPI

    Automatic Scaling in Windows FormsResolving High-DPI Scaling Issues for Windows* Apps

    I don't really know what Sheng Jiang 蒋晟 is refering to regarding "but scaling image is not" as that doesn't really have much to do with a DPI aware application to my knowledge. Also I've altered my monitor and never seen any issue with the new setting displaying the image even if the image quality began to suck due to a lower setting.


    La vida loca


    haha ;) You have a point, and I hear you.  Fortunately in this case, the vendors are the creators of the applications in question, not a middleman.  Nice catch.

    Those links you provided are links I did run across in a search but failed to include.  Great references for those who happen upon this post.

    As always, greatly appreciative of everyone's input.

    Wednesday, January 7, 2015 9:08 PM