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    Hello everyone,

    Being one of the many volunteer answerers on the TechNet forum - I often see many good posts not being recognized correctly.  I believe when someone quickly skims through search results for a problem resolution - looks for either a post marked as answer or voted helpful. Also seeing other people (like this one – not picking Fadi here just found him first J)  also encouraging users to ‘marking as answer’, ‘proposing as answer’ or ‘vote as helpful’ – I started using a signature like the one below lately.  

    BUT I was scolded by a moderator (for asking others to mark 'MY' post - not sure how I did that) - signature was removed and the answer was unmarked for that crime committed. L

    So I thought I’ll check here what is the standard? I’ll like to hear other people’s opinion on this.

    Thank you for any feedback!

    BlueSky2010
    Please help/ appreciate others choosing "Marking As Answer", "Propose As Answer" or "Vote As Helpful" .
    Monday, January 30, 2012 9:51 PM

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    Since I have not heard anything from Microsoft I'm thinking it's moderator's personal choice? What one like and what not.

    Apparently on SharePoint 2010 admin forum this same signature is fine. Also some how looks like this SharePoint 2007 Admin forum  'moderator' likes me (!?!) as he is now chasing me and unmarking my posts (1) others marked as answers. I'm loosing points in the process. Same time I'm seeing other people using similar signatures too (here is an example). Why is this double standard then??

    Is there not any guidelines for the moderators? Are they driven by their own rulings?

    BlueSky2010
    Please help/ appreciate others choosing "Marking As Answer", "Propose As Answer" or "Vote As Helpful" .
    Thursday, February 2, 2012 10:28 PM
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    I don't think it's correct for the moderator to penalize for such signature. I see lots of similar signatures around and I personally don't care - I don't like it too much, but I am used to it.
    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog
    Friday, February 3, 2012 2:10 AM
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    Without knowing the facts is my idea that moderators who think they are Sylvester Stalone in Judge Dred should direct be removed as Moderator.

    That experience is exact what has driven many active Newsgroups MVP's not to join the forums.

    Just my thought.

     

    Success
    Cor
    Friday, February 3, 2012 8:33 AM
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    Thanks Naomi and Cor for sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!

    I saw in many occasions volunteers are treated like a 'kindergarten student' - it really hurts. Surprusingly very few are talking about this.

     

     

    BlueSky2010
    Please help/ appreciate others choosing "Marking As Answer", "Propose As Answer" or "Vote As Helpful" .
    Friday, February 3, 2012 4:08 PM
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    In my opinion people who use this kind of sig are gaming the system by using this to attempt to gain extra points. This is unfair to all the (99%) of people who do not use this kind of sig. Points should be given for the best answers not for methods that try to persuade people to mark posts.

    As such I request changes in the sig of people who post to the pre-SP 2010 forums so there is no request to mark posts as answers

    On the points in the follow-up post from you.

    1. I ask everyone (except official Microsoft support who have this sig to educate people not for the points) using this sig to remove it.

    First of course I need to see a post containing it. The example given in your post is of a user I remember. The example came from October 2011 when I was having a break from the forums. When I came back I saw (at a later date) several recent posts from that poster in the pre-SP 2010 forums and I edited out the sig in them all and requested him to stop doing it. I also went back to several older posts and edited the sig out from them too - but clearly not for all of them going back to October (!),

    If you look at his present activities you will see that he has only posted to the SP 2010 forums for the past two months. There - as you wrote - Moderators take a more laissez-faire attitude to such sigs (or can't be bothered to deal with them). I prefer for everyone to have an equal chance of having their equally good post marked as an answer.

    2. Your example of an unmarked "answer". As above, I went back to older posts from you to edit out the sig and found if I remember correctly that you had only just started using the sig. The particular post you mentioned was no doubt one I looked at and as it consisted of suggestions only and especially because the original poster (OP) hadn't in any way commented that it helped him / solved his problem, I unmarked it as an answer.

    Your comment that you have lost points because of this only underlines that you seem to be more interested in points than in providing good answers as no change was made to the post and it is still there to provide possible help to the OP or anyone else who looks at the thread.

    Moderator pre-SP 2010 forums

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters
    Saturday, February 4, 2012 6:51 PM
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    Hi Mike,

    As YOU proposing a change to the SharePoint Pre 2010 forums – I suggest you don’t start implementing your ideas yet (by unmarking answers OP’s marked as answers). I’ve already given the reference to the thread – below is the screenshot.

    For the points I really don’t care much (as I can’t spend them at the malls J)– at the same time as Microsoft introduced this as a means of encouragement I’m not ashamed to shout if someone taking that away.

    BlueSky2010
    Please help/ appreciate others choosing "Marking As Answer", "Propose As Answer" or "Vote As Helpful" .
    Monday, February 6, 2012 9:22 PM
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    Without knowing the facts is my idea that moderators who think they are Sylvester Stalone in Judge Dred should direct be removed as Moderator.

    That experience is exact what has driven many active Newsgroups MVP's not to join the forums.

    Just my thought.

     

    Success
    Cor

    Thanks Cor. I agree that editing posts should be kept at a minimum and that the OP/Asker should be given control of thread answers.
    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)
    Monday, February 6, 2012 11:00 PM
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    Thanks Naomi and Cor for sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!

    I saw in many occasions volunteers are treated like a 'kindergarten student' - it really hurts. Surprusingly very few are talking about this.

     

     

    BlueSky2010
    Please help/ appreciate others choosing "Marking As Answer", "Propose As Answer" or "Vote As Helpful" .


    BlueSky,

    Agreed. You seem to be trying to raise awareness, not asking for others to mark your own answers.

    Please let us know (in the Forum Issues forum) when you feel like volunteers are treated like "kindergarten students." If you're referring to this issue (your disagreement with Mike), then you should probably understand that Mike and many Moderators are also volunteers and hard workers, trying to help a lot of people. That doesn't justify any behavior, but it should be understood nonetheless.

    Thanks!

    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Monday, February 6, 2012 11:02 PM
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    Thanks for that, Ed. I can give an example of how frustrating Moderating can sometimes be.

    There was a post yesterday in a pre-SP 2010 forum that talked about migrating to SP 2010. Now questions on migrating to SP 2010 belong in the Setup, *Upgrade* etc. SP 2010 forum and not in a pre-SP 2010 forum so it would have been easy to deal with it on that basis.

    However the post was actually asking about how to remove various things while still in the pre-SP 2010 product - the migration statements (= the reason he wanted to remove these things [first]) were in other words irrelevant and potentially confusing.

    So I made a very careful edit of the Title and the text so that what was left was a pure MOSS 2007 question suitable for the forum it had been posted to.

    This morning I discovered that not only had the (entire) original title and text been edited back in by the OP but that a replier had in fact given a SP 2010 reply to it (including a link to an SP 2010 article).

    Clearly the feeling in such cases is "why did I bother?".

    Mike

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters

    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 9:46 AM
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    I think you should not change the title and text of the message unless the title is a complete nonsense such as 'Need Help' and even in these cases you should probably leave it alone. Instead of editing text and a title you could have posted what do you think and where do you think the question may belong. But since it was a borderline question, you probably should have left it there.

    In cases where it's obvious that the question should have been posted in Pre-SP 2010 or vs. versa, just move this question to the correct forum. By moving to off-topic forum you're not helping to the OP and increase the volume of work for other moderators.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 2:04 PM
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    > But since it was a borderline question, you probably should have left it there.

    I must have explained the situation badly as this was *not* a "borderline question".

    The only question in the post was a question about how to remove various things (sites; lists etc.) from MOSS 2007.

    The problem was that the words used by the OP in the Title and in the Text seemed to be asking about upgrading to SP 2010 *which he wasn't*.

    Instead they were disguising the real question in the post (which was a correct question for a pre-SP 2010 forum) and people quickly reading the post would think he was asking about upgrading to SP 2010.

    Saying that he was removing these things in MOSS 2007 because after that he would be upgrading what was left *in MOSS 2007* to SP 2010 was a) irrelevent b) misleading c) off-topic in a pre-SP 2010 forum.

    Microsoft had a choice of keeping the old SP forums for all versions of the product or of making new forums for the SP 2010 products and leaving the older forums there for the older products. They chose the latter. The result is that all Moderators both MS and non-MS need to spend a crazy amount of time moving threads from pre-SP 2010 to SP 2010 or from SP 2010 to pre-SP 2010 because rather too many users can't seem to be able to read the names of forums (which in both cases are very clear -spelling out whether they are for SP 2010 or for pre-SP 2010) before they post to them.

    That in itself is enough burden without having people create (in your words) borderline cases from problems which actually are not.

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters


    • Edited by Mike Walsh FIN Tuesday, February 7, 2012 4:44 PM "what" to "problems which" in final sentence
    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 4:42 PM
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    I see - perhaps there may be a better solution for this problem? I can see many people getting confused as which forum to use for posting their questions.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 5:17 PM
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    I see - perhaps there may be a better solution for this problem? I can see many people getting confused as which forum to use for posting their questions.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Great topic, Mike!

    You said: "Microsoft had a choice of keeping the old SP forums for all versions of the product or of making new forums for the SP 2010 products and leaving the older forums there for the older products. They chose the latter. The result is that all Moderators both MS and non-MS need to spend a crazy amount of time moving threads from pre-SP 2010 to SP 2010 or from SP 2010 to pre-SP 2010 because rather too many users can't seem to be able to read the names of forums (which in both cases are very clear -spelling out whether they are for SP 2010 or for pre-SP 2010) before they post to them."

    I've seen many forums do this (not just SharePoint).

    Let's explore this... What if there was one forum group for all SharePoint? Then every post would be presented with the question... which version is this for?

    But perhaps you have to do that anyway?

    How often do you have to move a thread from one forum (pre-SP2010) to another forum (SP2010). Do you move them there directly? Or do you move them to Off Topic?

    Thanks!

    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)


    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 5:50 PM
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    Thanks for that, Ed. I can give an example of how frustrating Moderating can sometimes be.

    There was a post yesterday in a pre-SP 2010 forum that talked about migrating to SP 2010. Now questions on migrating to SP 2010 belong in the Setup, *Upgrade* etc. SP 2010 forum and not in a pre-SP 2010 forum so it would have been easy to deal with it on that basis.

    However the post was actually asking about how to remove various things while still in the pre-SP 2010 product - the migration statements (= the reason he wanted to remove these things [first]) were in other words irrelevant and potentially confusing.

    So I made a very careful edit of the Title and the text so that what was left was a pure MOSS 2007 question suitable for the forum it had been posted to.

    This morning I discovered that not only had the (entire) original title and text been edited back in by the OP but that a replier had in fact given a SP 2010 reply to it (including a link to an SP 2010 article).

    Clearly the feeling in such cases is "why did I bother?".

    Mike

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters

    Very frustrating! Do you think issues like that would happen no matter what forum they were in? Or do you think combining the forums would solve an issue like this?

    So the policy would be to not edit it, but we would want Moderators to ask questions and make statements like this: 

    "You seem to be asking two questions, which would go into two forums. Please pick a question. Your title and main question belong in "X" forum. But we can answer your "Y" question here. Here's my take on that: "Z". Please rename this thread to "A" and then ask your "B" question over in the "X" forum." 

    I understand that might be frustrating, and so you might want to ignore the question and let another Moderator deal with it. Maybe come back to it later. If there are no Moderators who are active, then I think we should work on that issue. (Let me know.)

    Thanks!

    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 6:03 PM
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    BlueSky, are we hijacking your thread?

    I think we answered your question earlier... we do allow (and encourage) you to recommend other users to make use of features. I think your signature is clear about that. Mike if you disagree, then do you have a recommendation of how BlueSky's signature can be clearer?

    It seems that the issue is that we need to communicate across Moderators better than we are. So we're going to work on that more.

    But let's talk about the signature... 

    Current:

    Please help/ appreciate others choosing "Marking As Answer", "Propose As Answer" or "Vote As Helpful".

    What about...?

    Please help and appreciate others by using these features: "Propose As Answer", "Vote As Helpful", and "Mark As Answer" (OP/Asker only). 

    Is that a little clearer? What do you think, BlueSky?

    Thanks!

    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 6:10 PM
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    Nice suggestion, Ed. This (what you proposed) sounds like a best way to handle the situation, but it also will be most time consuming.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 6:19 PM
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    Please help and appreciate others by using these features: "Propose As Answer", "Vote As Helpful", and "Mark As Answer" (OP/Asker only). 

    Sounds good to me Ed! I've updated my signature based on your suggestion - except the "OP/Asker only" part. Is that alright? Currently Proposing / Voting are open to everyone, right?

    I really appreciate everyone's attention to this matter.

    BlueSky2010
    Please help and appreciate others by using these features: "Propose As Answer", "Vote As Helpful" and "Mark As Answer"


    • Edited by BlueSky2010 Tuesday, February 7, 2012 8:38 PM
    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 8:37 PM
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    I'm still going to delete it if it is used in the pre-SP 2010 forums because I don't let anyone except MS employees have this kind of sig (and as you rightly earlier stated there has to be the same rule(s) for all posters to a forum set).'

    Mike Walsh

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters

    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 8:41 PM
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    Thank you Pengyu Zhao for taking care of this thread. Just wondering what is the decision about this one? :-)

    BlueSky2010
    Please help and appreciate others by using these features: "Propose As Answer", "Vote As Helpful" and "Mark As Answer"

    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 8:44 PM
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    > Very frustrating! Do you think issues like that would happen no matter what forum they were in? Or do you think combining the forums would solve an issue like this?

    I've written a long blog item about the alternatives of different forum sets or the same set.

    In short, if you have different sets you can assume which product a user is using if he doesn't say. If you have one set then you will always have to ask.

    There's not such a big difference as it may seem because "can assume" doesn't mean that a person not saying what he has posts to the right set, but still.

    The other point is once you've established which product it is, with two different forum sets someone needs to move the off-topic posts. That someone is going to be a Moderator.

    Hence again in brief. One forum set mean everyone is involved in asking which product; two forum sets means less asking but much more work for the Moderators.

    ---------------

    If there are two clear questions - one for MOSS 2007 and one for SP 2010, I remove the SP 2010 one from the post and ask in an in-text comment the OP to post that question to a SP 2010 forum. This leaves the MOSS 2007 question in the correct forum.

    Yes, it's more work but people learn from doing the extra post and often don't do it again.

    Equally bad are people who reply with links to both 2007 and 2010 articles. Clearly the 2010 article links need to be edited out because they are off-topic. Whole posts with 2010 answers to 2007 threads (which also happen) are easier to deal with.

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters


    Tuesday, February 7, 2012 8:49 PM
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    Nice suggestion, Ed. This (what you proposed) sounds like a best way to handle the situation, but it also will be most time consuming.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog


    Well the suggestion is just to tweak BlueSky's signature, which is done now.

    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Wednesday, February 8, 2012 12:48 AM
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    I'm still going to delete it if it is used in the pre-SP 2010 forums because I don't let anyone except MS employees have this kind of sig (and as you rightly earlier stated there has to be the same rule(s) for all posters to a forum set).'

    Mike Walsh

    Hi Mike. I agree that it is appropriate for a moderator to enforce his or her understanding of the rules for the forum(s) he or she is responsible for. You clearly take a more hands-on approach to moderating your forums than many moderators do, but I don't see a problem with that if it's done in a fair and consistent way.

    However, a signature is not, as far as I know, forum specific but follows a user across all the Microsoft forums. So sanctioning a user for a signature that is considered OK in other forums (and even by Ed) does not seem right to me.

    Wednesday, February 8, 2012 2:09 AM
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    I'm still going to delete it if it is used in the pre-SP 2010 forums because I don't let anyone except MS employees have this kind of sig (and as you rightly earlier stated there has to be the same rule(s) for all posters to a forum set).'

    Mike Walsh

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters


    I checked with the Forum owners about this, and they all think this is an okay use of the signature, according to policies. They discussed updating the Moderating Forums Guide accordingly. I'll check in with them later again about that.

    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Wednesday, February 8, 2012 2:50 AM
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    > Very frustrating! Do you think issues like that would happen no matter what forum they were in? Or do you think combining the forums would solve an issue like this?

    I've written a long blog item about the alternatives of different forum sets or the same set.

    In short, if you have different sets you can assume which product a user is using if he doesn't say. If you have one set then you will always have to ask.

    There's not such a big difference as it may seem because "can assume" doesn't mean that a person not saying what he has posts to the right set, but still.

    The other point is once you've established which product it is, with two different forum sets someone needs to move the off-topic posts. That someone is going to be a Moderator.

    Hence again in brief. One forum set mean everyone is involved in asking which product; two forum sets means less asking but much more work for the Moderators.

    ---------------

    If there are two clear questions - one for MOSS 2007 and one for SP 2010, I remove the SP 2010 one from the post and ask in an in-text comment the OP to post that question to a SP 2010 forum. This leaves the MOSS 2007 question in the correct forum.

    Yes, it's more work but people learn from doing the extra post and often don't do it again.

    Equally bad are people who reply with links to both 2007 and 2010 articles. Clearly the 2010 article links need to be edited out because they are off-topic. Whole posts with 2010 answers to 2007 threads (which also happen) are easier to deal with.

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters



    This is an excellent comparison. Thanks, Mike.

    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Wednesday, February 8, 2012 2:52 AM
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    I also agree that this signature is not a violation of any forum rules and can be permitted.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Wednesday, February 8, 2012 2:59 AM
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    >I checked with the Forum owners about this, and they all think this is an okay use of the signature, according to policies.

    I still see this kind of signature as gaming the system to try to get people to mark as answer the post in which the signature appears and thus gain points.

    This does actually work. In the old forum days it was possible to see the top hundred (and more) posters listed per answers. Mixed in between the very active Moderators that were typically in the top twenty were only users that had this kind of sig. I know because I checked them. Their answers were often no better answers (often worse) than other posts in the threads but the OP's were marking their posts as answers rather than the others.

    I note in this thread that although the OP here claims he is not looking for points, one of his posts is only there to request that someone from Microsoft look at a thread where I have removed the mark as answer in his post in the thread. Clearly he wants the points for an answer...

    Again allowing this kind of sig from anyone other than Microsoft employees whose job it is to provide forum guidance is unfair on all the people who do not have sigs like this.

    Why not make that a compulsary part of a sig? At least then there will be a level playing field among posters.

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters

    Wednesday, February 8, 2012 10:01 AM
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    One of the very best SQL Server Moderator and extremelly knowledgable person has this as part of this signature

    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/profile/jonathan%20kehayias/?type=forum&referrer=http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/sqldatabaseengine/threads

    So, it depends on how you look at it. I would say, if the person wants this signature, let it be.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Wednesday, February 8, 2012 1:36 PM
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    I'm still going to delete it if it is used in the pre-SP 2010 forums because I don't let anyone except MS employees have this kind of sig (and as you rightly earlier stated there has to be the same rule(s) for all posters to a forum set).'


    It does not make sense to me. If people are allowed to promote their personal sites / blogs through the signatures - why not this one?

    BlueSky2010
    Please help and appreciate others by using these features: "Propose As Answer", "Vote As Helpful" and "Mark As Answer"

    Wednesday, February 8, 2012 4:14 PM
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    >I checked with the Forum owners about this, and they all think this is an okay use of the signature, according to policies.

    I still see this kind of signature as gaming the system to try to get people to mark as answer the post in which the signature appears and thus gain points.

    This does actually work. In the old forum days it was possible to see the top hundred (and more) posters listed per answers. Mixed in between the very active Moderators that were typically in the top twenty were only users that had this kind of sig. I know because I checked them. Their answers were often no better answers (often worse) than other posts in the threads but the OP's were marking their posts as answers rather than the others.

    I note in this thread that although the OP here claims he is not looking for points, one of his posts is only there to request that someone from Microsoft look at a thread where I have removed the mark as answer in his post in the thread. Clearly he wants the points for an answer...

    Again allowing this kind of sig from anyone other than Microsoft employees whose job it is to provide forum guidance is unfair on all the people who do not have sigs like this.

    Why not make that a compulsary part of a sig? At least then there will be a level playing field among posters.


    Really - you are proving my point. This is actually why I had to create this thread. Ed asked earlier regarding the 'Kindergarten Student' expression whehter I was referring to the treatment I was getting or not. This is ofcourse true at the same time I came few other instances where others were not treated rightly (I don't have them handy now). Look again here your stance on 'policies' - reminds me of 'Sylvester Stalone' (referring to the comment made earlier).

    You talking again about the points - think about it PLEASE. I'm an anonymous contributor - do this just for my own satisfaction. I'm trying to make the correction here asking to mark the answers back (as it was supposed to be). I feel someone unjustly unmarked answers. Hope you are getting the message.

    BlueSky2010
    Please help and appreciate others by using these features: "Propose As Answer", "Vote As Helpful" and "Mark As Answer"

    Wednesday, February 8, 2012 7:04 PM
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    If an area in the right margin of each forum page was dedicated to that message


       (Please help and appreciate others by using these features: "Propose As Answer", "Vote As Helpful" and"Mark As Answer")



    it would level the playing field.

    Oh no! Someone created a Sly Stone account to make these points! =^)

    Yeah, it's not a bad feature request. You might want to start a new thread in this forum with the suggestion. And you can add it as a feature request to the Forums/Profile Feature Requests article on TechNet Wiki.

    Thanks!

    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:47 PM
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    >I checked with the Forum owners about this, and they all think this is an okay use of the signature, according to policies.

    I still see this kind of signature as gaming the system to try to get people to mark as answer the post in which the signature appears and thus gain points.

    This does actually work. In the old forum days it was possible to see the top hundred (and more) posters listed per answers. Mixed in between the very active Moderators that were typically in the top twenty were only users that had this kind of sig. I know because I checked them. Their answers were often no better answers (often worse) than other posts in the threads but the OP's were marking their posts as answers rather than the others.

    I note in this thread that although the OP here claims he is not looking for points, one of his posts is only there to request that someone from Microsoft look at a thread where I have removed the mark as answer in his post in the thread. Clearly he wants the points for an answer...

    Again allowing this kind of sig from anyone other than Microsoft employees whose job it is to provide forum guidance is unfair on all the people who do not have sigs like this.

    Why not make that a compulsary part of a sig? At least then there will be a level playing field among posters.

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters

    Let's try to avoid pointing fingers, but you have some excellent general points about how it has worked in the past in the favor of the person with the signature. Was it specific to "Mark As Answer", or did it include "Vote As Helpful" and "Propose As Answer" as well?

    Thanks!

     

    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:49 PM
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    > Was it specific to "Mark As Answer", or did it include "Vote As Helpful" and "Propose As Answer" as well?

    It was specific to Mark as Answer because that list showed only the number of answers (the other two lists were number of points and number of posts).

    Vote as Helpful adds to points of course (however, many other things do too) but there is no way (and was then no way) to connect that to a request to "vote as helpful" except by looking at all threads; looking at the posts with vote as helpful and seeing if posts where the reader was asked to vote as helpful were over-represented. Needless to say I never did this.

    The same to a certain extent for Propose as Answer although that means no points unless converted. I did however check all threads marked with Proposed as Answer (to automatically remove self-proposals and investigate the others) and on average had the feeling that especially new people in the forums were marking up such posts in preference to other posts in the same thread. But that was based on gut feeling over a long period of time and there was nothing in available stats that pointed to it.

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters

    Thursday, February 9, 2012 12:09 PM
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    I'm still going to delete it if it is used in the pre-SP 2010 forums because I don't let anyone except MS employees have this kind of sig (and as you rightly earlier stated there has to be the same rule(s) for all posters to a forum set).'

    Okay guys I guess we talked a lot someone need to intervene now. My posts are being deleted now from SharePoint pre 2010 forums.

    My post disappeared from this thread - http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/sharepointadmin/thread/612306b5-e192-4daf-8287-ee049c3078ff

    WHY?

    BlueSky2010
    Please help and appreciate others by using these features: "Propose As Answer", "Vote As Helpful" and "Mark As Answer"


    • Edited by BlueSky2010 Sunday, February 12, 2012 4:38 PM
    Sunday, February 12, 2012 4:33 PM
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    I have to agree, if your post got deleted because of your signature, thats not ok. I have the same message (in german) in my sig, because i'm a moderator and my goal is to encourage people to use the Helpful/Answer-features more. 

    I think it's important that moderators act as role models. If we want people to keep participating and also expect them to follow the rules, we need to avoid even the slightest suspicion of arbitrariness. Also deleting someones post completely, is rather draconian and should be reserved for crystal clear cases of rule violations. And in this case, the consensus is quite obviously that these signatures are not against forum rules.

    Blog: http://bytecookie.wordpress.com

    Hilf mit und markiere hilfreiche Beiträge als "Hilfreich" und Beiträge die deine Frage ganz oder teilweise beantwortet haben als "Antwort".

    Sunday, February 12, 2012 5:47 PM
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    > Okay guys I guess we talked a lot someone need to intervene now. My posts are being deleted now from SharePoint pre 2010 forums.

    I read this at the time it was posted but decided to avoid causing even more waves. However I might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb (and I've already been hung) so here is a reply anyway (as I noticed it again when removing (my) Alerts on as many threads as possible)

    I told the poster twice in two different threads (one of which was this one) that if he posted again in the pre-SP 2010 forums with this kind of sig his posts would be deleted.

    Nevertheless he did make such a post. ONE post (where he got the "my postS" from is beyond me).

    This left me with two choices

    a) I could ignore the post (or once again just remove the sig)

    b) I could delete it

    a) would have left me with no credibility as a moderator

    b) gave the opportunity for the OP here (presumably precisely what he was looking for when he posted that post with that sig) to complain that I had deleted his thread.

    Given the choice between a rock and a hard place I decided to go out with a bang rather than a wimper. There was in any case no real choice as to stay a moderator it's necessary to have credilibity as a Moderator.

    Choosing b has no doubt contributed to the fact that I am no longer a Moderator after more than four years. So look at the pre-SP 2010 forums in a few months and wonder about the number of SP 2010 (own forums for SP 2010); Project Server (own forums for Project Server); PerformancePoint Server 2007 (own forums ...) posts there; at the number of SP 2010 replies (and new questions) in SP 2007 threads; at the number of posts in the Accessibility forum that have nothing to do with the accessibility needs of the physically challenged; at the number of duplicate posts; at the number of spam posts that survive for several days and at the number of people now able to post (only) advert posts about their companies' products (and even about the number of posters who state that their question is urgent and they want ASAP answers) and then wonder if it was worth it.

    (I am now removing the Alert on this thread as on all the others, so slander me all you want, I won't see it)

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters


    • Edited by Mike Walsh FIN Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:26 PM (and even ..) added
    Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:24 PM
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    Okay guys I guess we talked a lot someone need to intervene now. My posts are being deleted now from SharePoint pre 2010 forums.

    My post disappeared from this thread - http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/sharepointadmin/thread/612306b5-e192-4daf-8287-ee049c3078ff

    WHY?

    BlueSky2010
    Please help and appreciate others by using these features: "Propose As Answer", "Vote As Helpful" and "Mark As Answer"

    Try posting again.

    Thanks!

    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:42 PM
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    > Okay guys I guess we talked a lot someone need to intervene now. My posts are being deleted now from SharePoint pre 2010 forums.

    I read this at the time it was posted but decided to avoid causing even more waves. However I might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb (and I've already been hung) so here is a reply anyway (as I noticed it again when removing (my) Alerts on as many threads as possible)

    I told the poster twice in two different threads (one of which was this one) that if he posted again in the pre-SP 2010 forums with this kind of sig his posts would be deleted.

    Nevertheless he did make such a post. ONE post (where he got the "my postS" from is beyond me).

    This left me with two choices

    a) I could ignore the post (or once again just remove the sig)

    b) I could delete it

    a) would have left me with no credibility as a moderator

    b) gave the opportunity for the OP here (presumably precisely what he was looking for when he posted that post with that sig) to complain that I had deleted his thread.

    Given the choice between a rock and a hard place I decided to go out with a bang rather than a wimper. There was in any case no real choice as to stay a moderator it's necessary to have credilibity as a Moderator.

    Choosing b has no doubt contributed to the fact that I am no longer a Moderator after more than four years. So look at the pre-SP 2010 forums in a few months and wonder about the number of SP 2010 (own forums for SP 2010); Project Server (own forums for Project Server); PerformancePoint Server 2007 (own forums ...) posts there; at the number of SP 2010 replies (and new questions) in SP 2007 threads; at the number of posts in the Accessibility forum that have nothing to do with the accessibility needs of the physically challenged; at the number of duplicate posts; at the number of spam posts that survive for several days and at the number of people now able to post (only) advert posts about their companies' products (and even about the number of posters who state that their question is urgent and they want ASAP answers) and then wonder if it was worth it.

    (I am now removing the Alert on this thread as on all the others, so slander me all you want, I won't see it)

    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters


    Regardless of whether or not you come back to this thread, I will not let anyone slander you. That's not okay in any circumstances.

    You have a good point about the pre-SP 2010 forums. Specifically I think we need more Answerers to close down threads and drive them to conclusions. The mess of posts in the wrong forums is also an issue, but we can flag them as Off Topic for the vendor Moderators to move (since moving threads is time consuming and deleting them isn't the gentlest approach).

    Thanks!

    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:48 PM
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    Try posting again.

    Thanks!

    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Thanks Ed!

    Appreciate everyone for the opinion.

    BlueSky2010
    Please help and appreciate others by using these features: "Propose As Answer", "Vote As Helpful" and "Mark As Answer"

    Tuesday, February 28, 2012 6:15 PM
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    Don't know where to post this, but here we go again.  Sharepoint forums all just changed names with release of 2013 forums.  I can understand separate forums for each version, but do we have to rename them and break the urls every time?  If yes, then can the CMS please still handle redirects from old url?  Does MS know how many broken links to the forums there are on the internet now?  How many broken links there are in the threads themselves?  how much time we all spend to research and contribute to the community only to have to start over.
    Thursday, October 25, 2012 7:59 PM
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    I don't even get it, why people care so much about points and medals etc.

    This is actually a forum to help other people or recieve help from other people, right? I think the points and medals system have just being created to get more people here to help out others, however the points do not really tell a lot about a user.

    About marking posts as answer or helpful.

    I think it is a great idea to tell other people, that they should mark posts as answer or helpful, if it's proper.

    I agree to remove it if you just say something like "Mark my post as answer now!" because that is some sort of a threat for some people, to mark the post or else there'll happen something bad (even though if there can't really happen a lot).

    In my opinion, putting the signature like "Mark posts as answer if you think it's the answer to the main question" should be "allowed" in any way. Except you write something like "Mark my post as answer now!" (like above).

    The following is my signature:

    Powershell Programmer & Advanced Lua Programmer

    Location: Switzerland

    Beside that, whenever you see a reply, you think is helpful, click "Alternate TextVote As Helpful"! And whenever you see a reply being an answer to the mainquestion of the thread, click "Alternate TextMark As Answer" (if you opened the thread).

    Please contact me, before reporting me, thank you.

    [string](0..21|%{[char][int]([int]("{0:d}" -f 0x28)+('577076797174-87661607769657424-8687168065964').substring(($_*2),2))})-replace' '


    • Edited by Livio von Büren Friday, October 26, 2012 11:52 AM updated "mainquestion" to "main question"
    Friday, October 26, 2012 9:18 AM
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    There is no such word in English as "mainquestion". These are two separate words.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Friday, October 26, 2012 11:49 AM
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    Thanks for correcting me. :) Just updated my signature aswell.

    The following is my signature:

    Powershell Programmer & Advanced Lua Programmer

    Location: Switzerland

    Beside that, whenever you see a reply, you think is helpful, click "Alternate TextVote As Helpful"! And whenever you see a reply being an answer to the main question of the thread, click "Alternate TextMark As Answer" (if you opened the thread).

    Please contact me, before reporting me, thank you.

    [string](0..21|%{[char][int]([int]("{0:d}" -f 0x28)+('577076797174-87661607769657424-8687168065964').substring(($_*2),2))})-replace' '


    Friday, October 26, 2012 11:52 AM