locked
Windows Live Sync beta blends the best of Sync and Mesh RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • As most of you have seen, we've released the Windows Live Essentials today!  This includes the new Live Sync that is built on the Mesh technology.  If you are a current Mesh customer, here's a great FAQ on what's changed, what happened and where things are if you are switching to the new Live Sync. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/livemesh/p/faq.aspx

    Some of the key items though!

    • Faster Remote Desktop with zoom/pan and major upgrade to multiple monitor support!
    • Improved Peer-to-Peer (P2P) file synchronization
    • A new web interface integrated with the rest of Windows Live
    • Quick click for Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office program settings/favorites synced across devices.
    • Simplified user interface
    • 2GB of online storage
    • Support for only Windows 7, Windows Vista with SP2, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows Server 2008, and Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard and later

    For more information on the what, how and why things changed and other information please make sure to read the FAQ

    Q: How is the new Sync different from Live Mesh beta?

    A: The new Windows Live Sync will be the first version of Sync to include Live Mesh technology. However, there are some differences between the new Sync and Live Mesh beta, including:

    • Faster remote desktop with zoom
    • Improved peer-to-peer (P2P) file synchronization
    • A new web interface integrated with rest of Windows Live
    • Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office program settings can be synced across PCs
    • Simplified user interface
    • 2 GB of online storage for synced folders
    • Support for only Windows 7, Windows Vista with SP2, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows Server 2008, and Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard and later

     Please make sure to read the FAQ for more information on the who, what, why and how of all the changes that have been going on over the last year in the building of the new Live Sync.

    Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:40 PM

All replies

  • Condolences to the Mesh team... It seems Live Sync Beta is just a gimped version of what Mesh was, and was capable of.

    In particular, seems the magnitude of the "Simplified user interface" 'difference' has been heavily understated.

    At this point, I additionally recommend people do not move to the new Live Sync Beta -- it's not worth uninstalling Live Mesh (and subsequent synced folders) to use Live Sync Beta.

    How long can I use the original Live Mesh Beta before it's shut down?


    ShadowXVII | http://www.shadowsplace.net
    Friday, June 25, 2010 5:37 AM
  • I second that ... I removed the old live sync, and got rid of Mesh too, and it definitely feels like a step back. 
    Friday, June 25, 2010 10:43 AM
  • I haven't had a chance to play with the beta extensively, but I know that many will miss what Live Mesh was. As a user of Live Sync, though, I like what it has become. Since the architecture is apparently Live Mesh, one can only hope that the future will hold more advancements to improve the service.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Friday, June 25, 2010 1:33 PM
    Moderator
  • I'm just concerned about how they are going to deliver updates. I mean, yeah they will use Windows Update, but the interval between updates?

    While Mesh had super-long gaps between any sign of life, at least it was independent in retrieving updates for the product. Hopefully Live Sync Beta receives the same treatment, though I'm doubtful...

    Maybe I'll move to SVN or something *shrug* :P


    ShadowXVII | http://www.shadowsplace.net
    Friday, June 25, 2010 2:27 PM
  • My guess is that there will some bug fixes before the release of the new Live Sync later this year, but no functional changes. I could, of course, be wrong.

    My hope is that we don't then have to wait 18 months for the next version. Live Mesh has never been a released product, so changes could be made more frequently, though we didn't see any in many months. The Live Mesh beta was left to stagnate while work proceeded on the major overhaul of Live Sync, merging it with Live Mesh.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Friday, June 25, 2010 3:27 PM
    Moderator
  • Hopefully we won't see the huge gap ever again.  Most of the cause around that was the complete shift from the stand alone Mesh product to the full integration into the Windows Live Experience.  And with that the close on communications and updates to Mesh while this all occured.

    On the features, long story short, only so many hours in the day to get so many things done.  We're working as quickly as possible to bring back all the things people miss and some new things that you've been asking for in the Sync area.  The plus side, the Remote client has just about every feature and fix request everyone here asked for so that's some consolation :)

    Friday, June 25, 2010 5:31 PM
  • Thanks, Ken. The 18 month reference was actually for Windows Live Essentials in its entirety, though. I don't recall when exactly Wave 3 went live off the top of my head, but it was surely over a year ago now and we just got the public beta. If the leaked timeline is to be believed, we'll not see the release for a few months yet. For Windows Live services and applications to remain fresh, we need to see releases more frequently. :-)

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Friday, June 25, 2010 5:50 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks for your reply Ken :)

    Do you have any idea as to how the feature requests will be handled? e.g. will we see the missing features added prior to release of Wave 4? Additionally, would it be possible to get a Microsoft Connect site for the Live Sync Beta (big ask!)? The forum doesn't seem to cope well with suggestions/bug reports very well :P

    As for regular updates, they would probably be too difficult for Windows Live... with so many users, and with Microsoft's usual stance on software updates, regular updates probably won't happen (e.g. on par with Google's Chrome :P)


    ShadowXVII | http://www.shadowsplace.net
    Friday, June 25, 2010 6:47 PM
  • Is there any chance to get increased online storage for Live Sync ? I moved back to Mesh right after I saw that Live Sync have only 2Gb available for online storage.

    What is the reason behind separated and very limited storage for LiveSync\LiveMesh when you have 25Gb SkyDrive? Dropbox looks much appealing now with potential free 8Gb and diff uploading.

    • Edited by Alexey Shcherbak Saturday, June 26, 2010 2:14 PM Dropbox have up to 8Gb, not 10Gb
    Saturday, June 26, 2010 2:04 PM
  • Does anyone know what happens to "excess storage" on Mesh, if you install Live Essentials??

    I suppose that I'm at some point will be forced to convert :(

    Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:07 AM
  • @bjsthans

    If I understand your question correctly - you mean what happens to folders from Mesh Live desktop, which excess 2GB storage offered by Live Sync ?

    Live Mesh (LM) and Live Sync (LS) have each its own storage - so if you install new LS (LM will be uninstalled) and you previously didnt use LS at all - you will see empty LS online storage. No folders from your LM account will be transfered there. You should add them to LS again.

    But at current state LS is really just gimped LM, I will try to stay with LM as long as possible - I dont like LS interface, missing remote desktop feature, reduced storage size (I think I know some sort of "workaround" about that but imo its not fair to such greatly reduce offered storage space).

    Sunday, June 27, 2010 9:56 AM
  • And why there is no Windows XP support?
    Sunday, June 27, 2010 5:30 PM
  • And no Windows Mobile or even mobile browser support? That was an easy way to transfer files with Live Mesh, some had issues with the mobile client but it did work for a lot of people, now if you dont have access to a desktop you cant get files on to your phone. Will we ever see this functionality or should mobile users look elsewhere for another solution?

    Sunday, June 27, 2010 11:40 PM
  • And why there is no Windows XP support?

    In their defense, Windows XP is getting a little old now...


    ShadowXVII | http://www.shadowsplace.net
    Monday, June 28, 2010 3:31 AM
  • Is there any chance to get increased online storage for Live Sync ? I moved back to Mesh right after I saw that Live Sync have only 2Gb available for online storage.

    What is the reason behind separated and very limited storage for LiveSync\LiveMesh when you have 25Gb SkyDrive? Dropbox looks much appealing now with potential free 8Gb and diff uploading.


    I can only speculate based on what is posted in the blog - 

    http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_live/b/windowslive/archive/2010/06/10/coming-soon-windows-live-sync-beta.aspx

    "Although more is always better, we found that 2GB of cloud storage was enough for most of the common cases, while keeping our costs at a level that we could afford to run the service for free. "

    Basically, to open up Sync to the full capacity of SkyDrive would mean that Microsoft would have to insure a whole load of back end storage for all users of Sync/SkyDrive. The release version of Sync only does peer to peer. The beta version, merging Mesh and Sync gives you the online storage within SkyDrive, but it is 2 gigs to satisfy the needs of most users. There has been no announcement about plans for allowing you to puchase more storage, which would be a sensible option. Note that you can still sync much more than 2 gigs between PCs, but just not to the cloud.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Monday, June 28, 2010 2:14 PM
    Moderator
  • Does anyone know what happens to "excess storage" on Mesh, if you install Live Essentials??

    I suppose that I'm at some point will be forced to convert :(


    When you install Live Sync beta, Live Mesh is uninstalled. Your local folders become normal Windows folders. Any data on the Live Desktop is still available via www.mesh.com (or via other PCs that are running the Live Mesh client), but no data will sync between Live Sync and Live Mesh. you need to setup the sync relationships once again on any PC where the Live Sync Beta is installed.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Monday, June 28, 2010 2:18 PM
    Moderator
  • But at current state LS is really just gimped LM, I will try to stay with LM as long as possible - I dont like LS interface, missing remote desktop feature, reduced storage size (I think I know some sort of "workaround" about that but imo its not fair to such greatly reduce offered storage space).

    The interface is certainly simpler in the Live Sync Beta, but when you open the interface, you have the ability to remotely connect to any PCs that are set up to allow remote access via Live Sync Beta on the remote tab of the interface.


    -steve
    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Monday, June 28, 2010 2:21 PM
    Moderator
  • And why there is no Windows XP support?


    The decision was apparently made to drop XP support in Windows Live Wave 4 applications to simplify coding and to allow them to provide a better experience for users of the latest operating system.

    I've still got a few old machines running XP, so I'll not be able to include them in the new Sync, but that's fine by me. XP is ancient at this point and it really is time to move on.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Monday, June 28, 2010 2:24 PM
    Moderator
  • And no Windows Mobile or even mobile browser support? That was an easy way to transfer files with Live Mesh, some had issues with the mobile client but it did work for a lot of people, now if you dont have access to a desktop you cant get files on to your phone. Will we ever see this functionality or should mobile users look elsewhere for another solution?


    I am surprised by a lack of at least a Windows Mobile client, but I assume that it will come eventually. The same for mobile access via a mobile browser. I assume that it will come...

    -steve

     


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Monday, June 28, 2010 2:37 PM
    Moderator
  • And why there is no Windows XP support?

    I wonder about the same. XP is old, but there are still organisations that have not yet upgraded their machines.

    Now I have to move to a sync system that cannot sync some machines.

    That is not an improvement.

    Grrrrrrr!

    Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:53 AM
  • xp is present on majority of netbooks which are like 2nd pc. mesh synchronization was perfect. if there is osx client there should be also one for xp, doesn't meter about full wave 4 only sync will be great.
    Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:34 AM
  • And why there is no Windows XP support?

    I wonder about the same. XP is old, but there are still organisations that have not yet upgraded their machines.

    Now I have to move to a sync system that cannot sync some machines.

    That is not an improvement.

    Grrrrrrr!


    You don't have to upgrade immediately. It is currently only a beta and nothing has been announced about the length of time that the existing Mesh beta infrastructure will remain. I would imagine it will be around into at least the early part of 2011, assuming a release of Wave 4 bits to production within the next few months.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Tuesday, June 29, 2010 2:57 PM
    Moderator
  • Stephen;

     

    Thanks for all of your work for this forum.

    Yes XP is old but the facts show that many large organizations (state governments for instance) are still major users. It may seem simple for me as an individual to decide to bite the bullet and purchase a new machine with 7. For an organization with thousands of work stations, the cost, time, and complexity or such an upgrade prevents it from occuring rapidly. XP will remain for sometime. Dropping this support will force some other decisions. 


    Robert Tankersley
    Tuesday, June 29, 2010 3:34 PM
  • Hi, Robert. I understand that completely. The two machines I use at work are both still running XP. We deployed very few Vista machines and just recently began to deploy Windows 7 for new machines. There are no upgrades planned at this time due to cost, but as machines need replacement, they will get Windows 7.

    I have a few machines running XP at home, too, so as I migrate the Windows 7 and Vista machines to the beta, the XP machines will be left behind. I will probably update one of them to Windows 7, abandon one of them, and I'm not sure what to do about the netbook. It's one of the models that require major disassembly to upgrade the RAM from 1 gig and I'don't know that it is worth it, so it will probably continue life with XP and without Mesh/Sync.

    I don't know the exact reasons for the decision to no longer code for install on XP, but I assume that it was a cost/benefit issue. Yes, that will leave some people unable to use Sync/Mesh, but Sync/Mesh remains free for users of Vista/7. There are 3rd party alternatives, usually at a cost, for XP users. For a manual sync process, I've been using Goodsync successfully for some time over the LAN at work to keep folders in sync as Live Mesh/Sync would never work through our authenticated proxy here.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:14 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi I use mesh and love it, the syncing and the being able to access my data on the cloud work for me, I had a brief look at LS and dont seem to be able to get it to sync a directory with sub folders in it should I be able to do this ?

    Again I will grumble about the XP issue but it is true we do need to move with the times, the mitigation would be to stay on an old client but the I guess it wont talk to the cloud, mind you they will take the mesh cloud away grrrr grumble

    Any way has been a great product while it lasted


    The One
    Tuesday, July 6, 2010 12:32 PM
  • You should be able to sync a folder with sub-fodlers within on the release and the beta version of Live Sync. if that isn't working for you, head over to http://windowslivehelp.com for the Live Sync forum.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Tuesday, July 6, 2010 1:04 PM
    Moderator
  • And why there is no Windows XP support?

    I wonder about the same. XP is old, but there are still organisations that have not yet upgraded their machines.

    Now I have to move to a sync system that cannot sync some machines.

    That is not an improvement.

    Grrrrrrr!

    Where I work - the largest University in the UK, we are still actively installing XP on new machines where possible, e.g. Toshiba laptops which come with an XP recovery CD.  It means we have a good, stable, interface which users know, understand and works quickly.  If Mesh is being dumped for a non XP system then we will have to use other methods which is a shame.  Obv. MS wants to force people onto Win7 - I note IE9 will potentially not support XP....
    Friday, July 9, 2010 8:24 AM
  • Will Microsoft be making any comments around the future of this product?

    We are currently migrating away from Mesh due to no response so far around silly the 2gb limit. It looks as if Microsoft is making less of an effort to compete in the consumer cloud are in the hope that users will use other products on Windows like MobileMe/Dropbox.

    Friday, July 9, 2010 12:28 PM
  • They already have: 

    http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_live/b/windowslive/archive/2010/06/10/coming-soon-windows-live-sync-beta.aspx

    Nothing has been announced about the possibility of rasing the limits for available cloud storage in the future, but I suspect that it will be expanded over time much as SkyDrive and Hotmail storage was expanded.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Friday, July 9, 2010 1:57 PM
    Moderator
  • I haven't tried it myself, but it appears that you can add your phone device to the Windows Live Devices and then presumably choose that device as one of the sync devices. Given that, they would need some kind of client for the mobile device, wouldn't  they?
    Cindy Kee, CNC Consulting
    Monday, July 19, 2010 10:34 PM
  • I would think so, Cindy, but they haven't announced a mobile client. With their history of overlapping services and product names, it wouldn't surprise me either way. However, my phone is shown on the devices.live.com page right now and it does not have a sync client for Live Sync data or Skydrive Data. I do have Windows Live on the device (WM 6.5). The phone also uses the MyPhone service, which does sync data to the cloud, but has nothing to do with devices.live.com at all.

    What the future holds, we don't know.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Tuesday, July 20, 2010 12:46 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi - I' not usually a blog poster on these kinds of issues but Live Mesh has been brilliant for a charity and a not for profit I co-founded over the last 6 months to share documents to prepare trustees for board meetings.  We can keep membership rights to read only for change control and all is well.  However, I don't see that the "updated" services will work for us any more but perhaps I have misunderstood.  Perhaps someone can help me:

    - the 2Gb limit will be an issue for us too

    - we have about 15 members to each folder

    - Can I designate read only / editor access for a Sky Drive folder to different people?

    - How long do I have to check out the Microsoft alternatives (or 3rd party ones) before Live Mesh goes lights out?

     

    It has been great - shame about the changes not being of obvious benefit - they seem to have immediate negative impact but as I said - I'd be delighted to be corrected.

    regards

     

    Richard

    Monday, July 26, 2010 10:51 PM
  • So bottom line the political will of the sync group beat the mesh group. That's too bad. The mesh technology was superior. Heck it won a Crunchie! What accolades did sync ever get?

    Let's see we'll improve Microsoft's synchronization offerings by:

    1. Dropping the mobile and XP clients.
    2. Dropping the beautiful, simple to use explorer UI integration and replace it with something that looks like it was written in VB6 (yes you sync guys know your UI was the suck since day one and still is -- don't kid yourself. JUST LOOK AT IT!!! and then look at mesh's).
    3. Replacing the beautiful devices oriented mesh ring web site with some bland POS.
    4. Replacing the beautiful systray tool that was easy to use and allowed you to point-click-and-ship your way around your files with anothe VB6 era POS systray tool that is another example of why GRANDMA HATES YOU!!!
    5. Limiting the number of users you can share with
    6. Inferring that some of mesh lives in in sync (please...who do you think you are fooling?). If the core mesh product was still at the center of sync then bringing the clients from mesh to sync wouldn't be difficult.
    7. Screwing up the whole permissions aspect of the product and making it more limted and difficult. Windows Live's permissions have always been a mess of a bazillion disjointed permissions looping you from screen to screen to screen. Thank's for adding to that mess and making it that much easier for all of us.

    And the list goes on and on... This is going the way of Windows Mobile (6.5 was a real savior right?). Instead of amping it up like you're doing with WP7 you guys are going in the other direction. You could have merged it with skydrive (and no a chart showing how skydrive and the sync storage is different doesn't mean their difference can't be reconciled.) You could have made mesh clients for the iPhone and Android (bring more people, more devices to Microsoft as CUSTOMERS!!!). You could have added a simple (yet ellegant) UI on top of mesh for grandma's out there that want to sync thier pictures with their grandkids and left the powerful UI alone. It's a damn shame. Mesh could have saved you. Now its dropbox and the like's market to loose for file sync. "Microsoft Stync" -- you might want to trademark that.


    Like I Care...
    Thursday, August 5, 2010 8:16 AM
  • My guess is there won't be a WinMo client with the impending release of Windows Phone 7... I am sorry to see this feature go though....
    Sunday, August 8, 2010 9:47 PM
  •  

    Wow is this some sort of joke?  Almost everything listed as a new "Feature" is like a downgrade from MESH.  I think MS has really lost touch with what consumers want and is still trying to tell consumers what they "should' be using.  It's no wonder they haven't been successful in any of their new product offerings, with the whole social network and pace that information travels, people are more aware of what is better in the market, not just using what they think is the only thing available.

    I mean just look at the new "Key Items" as benefits, do you really believe these are better? 

     

    • Faster Remote Desktop with zoom/pan and major upgrade to multiple monitor support!  (The whole interface is more convoluted and difficult to use.  Like who really needs multiple monitor remote anyways?? )
    • Improved Peer-to-Peer (P2P) file synchronization  (I've had no issues with the Mesh file synchronization)
    • A new web interface integrated with the rest of Windows Live  (A new horrible interface, really how can you go from something that works well to something that dose not??  NEW is not always better)
    • Quick click for Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office program settings/favorites synced across devices. (Haven't tested this)
    • Simplified user interface  ( I would have to say no, it is not )
    • 2GB of online storage (Really a KEY feature??  to give less space?  Ok..)
    • Support for only Windows 7, Windows Vista with SP2, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows Server 2008, and Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard and later ( No XP??  Are you kidding, sure XP is old but many organizations cannot upgrade because of proprietary software they use that isn't Win 7 compatible yet.  )

    Not to mention other crippling "features" such as file and folder limits. 

    I really liked the fact we could set permissions from MS Messenger contact but I guess I'll have to go with Dropbox for our organization now.

    Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:48 PM
  • Great info! thanks for sharing. Please Keep the good work.

    The best audio video San Diego service
    Monday, September 20, 2010 2:54 PM
  • I am disappointed by the lack of WinXP support, as well. The "it's old" excuse is meaningless when, as I do, you support XP clients. If Live Mesh will not support XP, it won't be my clients changing their OS that will be reaction, but it will be my clients going with another sync/remote desktop solution.

    I also would like to express my dismay at having to download this Essentials suite of software just to get the Live Sync (or Live Mesh or whatever you're going to finally settle on calling it). I use Outlook, and certainly don't need another e-mail client, and I'm not interested in a picture gallery, or Messenger (I use Skype to telecon), or all the other stuff.

    You know, I appreciate all the work that went into Mesh. And because I used it, and more to the point, began to rely on it, shows that MS was heading in the right direction with the product. I'm saddened by this change in direction. To me, it seems that Live Sync is aimed at your average user, but Live Mesh added features that a computer professional could really use. Maybe you should consider a professional version of Live Mesh (Mesh Pro, maybe), that you could offer through TechNet or MAPS.

    Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:13 AM
  • You don't need to download the entire Essentials package. When the installer starts, uncheck all programs that you don't want from the suite. I suspect that you will be able to install just the Sync program from the sync web site by adding a PC when you log in via the browser. I don't know that last part for sure, though.

    I hear you on the XP bit, but I am quite sure that Microsoft has decided that those who don't upgrade from XP will be switching solutions and that's okay.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:04 PM
    Moderator
  • I can't quite seem to come to terms with the new beta of Live Sync. I was using the old version to sync machines at home and at the office as well as my laptop. I was reaching the limits of what was allowed (20 folders with 20,000 files each) so decided to try the new beta. However, I miss several features of the old program such as being able to see activity and hence find out which files are (or are not) being synced. I am supposedly also able to browse and even use a PC at a different location. In addition, when syncing several large folder, sync slows the computer to a crawl, consuming vast amounts of resources. 

    Do I have to go back to the old sync? Or am I doing something wrong? 


    Martin Cleaver - Spot Software
    Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:22 PM
  • MCleaver.

    To discuss Live Sync - http://windowslivehelp.com has a forum.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Sunday, September 26, 2010 11:37 PM
    Moderator
  • We have been planning to upgrade some of our systems to Win 7 and leave about 2/3 of them as XP Pro. With Microsoft not supporting mesh for XP Pro we are now going to consider upgrading to Ubuntu Linux and use Dropbox which is free for up to 2 Gigabytes. You can buy more if you want. It works across platforms like Linux and Windows XP.

    Microsoft just pushed us over a cliff.

     

    Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:44 PM
  • We have been planning to upgrade some of our systems to Win 7 and leave about 2/3 of them as XP Pro. With Microsoft not supporting mesh for XP Pro we are now going to consider upgrading to Ubuntu Linux and use Dropbox which is free for up to 2 Gigabytes. You can buy more if you want. It works across platforms like Linux and Windows XP.

    Microsoft just pushed us over a cliff.

     


    Your choice, of course. You have options... Switching operating systems completely because a *free* BETA service will end and the released product won't support a very old operating system... well...


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Friday, October 22, 2010 11:28 AM
    Moderator
  • I generally keep silent with any negative comments, but in this case I feel I really need to speak up for the sake of trying to save Live Mesh Beta.

    We have been using (and promoting to thousands of people) Microsoft products and Live Mesh Beta for quite some time, and this product has worked remarkably well for us. However after TRYING to use this new Live Sync for the past couple of months, I have to agree this is really a major step back and a seriously frustrating replacement. The negative feedback we've been receiving from people we've previously suggested try out Live Mesh Beta (which is now Live Sync) has indeed been vast. We now find ourselves in the uneviable position of whether to try to defend the service, or capitulate that they consider alternatives such as DropBox.

    Here are just a few reasons we are finding it increasingly difficulty to continue recommending Live Sync (and will probably no longer use it ourselves):

    1. System Tray icon no longer has a useful menu nor quick access to files/folders etc
    2. Apparently there is zero shell integration and so there's no blue folder indicating the folder is synced, no pop out menu from synced folders (allowing the mgmt of permissions for example), no ability to quickly add a Windows folder to Live Mesh by right clicking on it
    3. The admin interface using the web browser (i.e. 'Open Windows Live Mesh') is certainly two steps back from the previous client and a less than stellar experience to say the least. It seems kludgy, unrefined and a throw back to the 90's. In contrast the previous client of Live Mesh Beta was elegant, efficient from a UX perspective and just plain nice
    4. The previous web UI ring of Live Mesh Beta is now completely gone from Live Sync. This was also an elegant and nice way to see things at a glance, access files/folders, news, see what systems/devices were online etc.

    The above are just some of the major frustrations and I honestly fail to see why MS chose to go in this direction. I certainly can see the desire to integrate with Windows Live, but until the UX of Windows Live becomes understandable, clear and well organized in an appealing manner, then no additional services should probably be integrated into it.

    In general the Windows Live site seems to be difficult to navigate, aesthetically unappealing, hard to find what you're looking for, has a high complexity of permissions (or at least trying to figure them out) and so on. Perhaps this is a case of trying to oversimplify something too much, but in so doing has become more complex? I just don't know, but it certainly doesn't work for us nor for the numerous folks we have previously suggested try out Live Mesh Beta.

    We have always been strong advocates of Microsoft's technologies/services and greatly admire the work done by the programmers/engineers, but recently many of the decisions made just perplex me to no end (e.g. the removal of drive extender from WHS, or the migration to WordPress instead of addressing the issues with Live Spaces - now you're starting to lose customers there).

    It would seem people clearly don't like this new Windows Live Sync, except perhaps those who never experienced the delights of the previous Beta, and so they don't know what their missing. And NO, the previous Beta was NOT complicated, people are smart so give them some credit.

    I implore MS to listen and address these concerns now before the situation further deteriorates. Your doing great things with Win7, WP7, XBOX, the Zune ecosystem, Azure, your superb devt tools etc. And so don't lose the good will of the community which Live Mesh Beta certainly help generate.

    IE9 is turning out to be a great product because MS has listened to user feedback, so please listen to this feedback and make the necessary course corrections. If you need to extend the Live Mesh Beta program to give yourselves time to make the adjustments to Live Sync, then by all means do that. But show us that you are listening by doing something to address the situation and provide a clear roadmap here, as you do with STB.

    You know I wonder where MS is getting its direction/feedback on these things? Because it doesn't seem to be from these forums nor the 'connect' site. And on that note, I don't see an area on the 'connect' site for Windows Live Sync feedback/suggestiongs/bug submissions, is there one?

    Thanks and I do hope to see some change.

    Tom 

    Wednesday, February 16, 2011 9:56 PM
  • Tom,  

    I couldn't agree more.  I've been wanting to say the same thing. Second all you're saying.  They really messed this one up!  1,5 god products turned into one really bad one. I'm looking at alternatives right now, as all the great things that made me use Mesh are gone.

    Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:47 PM
  • your superb devt tools etc.

    I'd have to disagree on this point. :)

    The problem with Microsoft is they:

    • Are too big and bad people can hide easily within the organization
    • Are too political -- it's not about building the best product anymore
    • Are too academic in their approach to providing a solution (especially in their development tools). "best practices", anyone? They're great when they work well in the real world. Much of the time they don't stand up.

    I used to be a big Microsoft fan because they always provided the easiest solution over their competitors; just point-click-and-ship your way to success. Now they can seem to put together a cohesive product, service, eco-system or anything that has a broader vision than some academic wet-dream.

    They get close with ideas like Silverlight, Kinect, WP7, and even a lot of the Live stuff but they never seem to be able to tie it all together. They're just peices to a piecemeal solution. 

    Wednesday, February 16, 2011 11:15 PM
  • <snip>

    (which is now Live Sync)

    <snip>

    You know I wonder where MS is getting its direction/feedback on these things? Because it doesn't seem to be from these forums nor the 'connect' site. And on that note, I don't see an area on the 'connect' site for Windows Live Sync feedback/suggestiongs/bug submissions, is there one?

    Thanks and I do hope to see some change.

    Tom 

    Hello, Tom. Good feedback.

    It is Windows Live Mesh, by the way. Windows Live Sync is the old version -- which itself was an update of FolderShare. The two disparate, though similar, products came together in Windows Live Mesh. Live Sync  and Live Mesh beta will both cease to function at the same time, the end of March.

    Feedback, for what its worth, can be left at http://feedback.live.com

    The forum for Windows Live Mesh can be found on the Windows Live Solution Center - http://windowslivehelp.com

    And, for the record, I lament the passing of Live Mesh. Windows Live Mesh does seem rather a step backwards in features, functionality and usability. You covered the high points of why. I'm hoping that it will improve over time.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:46 AM
    Moderator
  • You make very good points and it certainly does seem they can't tie things together (at least not successuflly), and when they do try we end up with things like this Windows Live Mesh. There's so much potential yet as you pointed out they're probably just too wrapped up in their own world to get it 'right'. Now yesterday I read some scutttlebutt about MS ending the Zune branding and so I certainly hope that they don't do to Zune what they did to Live Mesh Beta. And yes Silverlight, Kinect, WP7 - all good stuff. Something else that seems to be turning into a real star is Azure, and so I've been focusing much of my company's efforts on getting us up to speed on that.

    Tom

    Friday, February 18, 2011 1:13 AM
  • You make very good points and it certainly does seem they can't tie things together (at least not successuflly), and when they do try we end up with things like this Windows Live Mesh. There's so much potential yet as you pointed out they're probably just too wrapped up in their own world to get it 'right'. Now yesterday I read some scutttlebutt about MS ending the Zune branding and so I certainly hope that they don't do to Zune what they did to Live Mesh Beta. And yes Silverlight, Kinect, WP7 - all good stuff. Something else that seems to be turning into a real star is Azure, and so I've been focusing much of my company's efforts on getting us up to speed on that.

    Tom


    dont forget webmatrix , its great !

    by the way , its touch or go , either zune goes away or they launch it worldwide , a bit cheaper and start to take some of the apple market , ....

    try to get a zune overseas , .... the should have released it in europe , asia two years ago !

    mesh may see later this year a new version with extended options , the huge benefit that most people forget is that it allows you to take your files with you , great for holidays or travel ! only the name mesh , .... they should have kept either folder share or Sync !

    have a nice day


    Scan with OneCare + Support ENDING for windows Vista & XP ! + Plagued by the Privacy Center? REMOVE IT + Threat Research & Response Blog + Sysinternals Live tools + TRANSLATOR + Photosynth + Microsoft Security + Microsoft SUPPORT + PIVOT from Live Labs + Microsoft Live Labs + Get OFFICE 2010 FREE ! 
    Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:30 AM
  • I understand that you're trying to simplify the product portfolio, but as others have stated, the "Simplified user interface" is a massive backwards step.

    It's causing me major difficulty now at university keeping my files in sync with only a webui to use, the 'Views' feature (emulating windows explorer) was a must.

    Without these features back, I am looking to 'down'grade (it's not really a downgrade if you gain useful features, is it?) to Mesh/Live Sync Beta, or alternatively find a different sync program.

    Unless it was your intention to make it worse so that less people use it and you can save a shedload of harddisk space...?

    Wouldn't put it past you guys.

    Please restore my confidence in MS, you guys been sucking a lot recently. WHS without Drive Extender tech, Mesh going downhill. Even my Win7 desktop is making me want to load Ubuntu for some peace (and to keep my hair)!

    Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:46 PM
  • I would think so, Cindy, but they haven't announced a mobile client. With their history of overlapping services and product names, it wouldn't surprise me either way. However, my phone is shown on the devices.live.com page right now and it does not have a sync client for Live Sync data or Skydrive Data. I do have Windows Live on the device (WM 6.5). The phone also uses the MyPhone service, which does sync data to the cloud, but has nothing to do with devices.live.com at all.

    What the future holds, we don't know.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~


    Please can we have a MS that works with all the departments? Microsoft majorly needs a Defrag!

    The future holds all our devices with (access to) all our data, it's Web 3.0 baby!!

    Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:50 PM
  • Please can we have a MS that works with all the departments? Microsoft majorly needs a Defrag!

    The future holds all our devices with (access to) all our data, it's Web 3.0 baby!!


    http://feedback.live.com to give your feedback on Windows Live Mesh.

    I hear you about the lack of mobile support - maddening when it was available in Live Mesh beta.

    You can't "downgrade" to Live Mesh beta or Live Sync as both of these services will die in about a month.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Wednesday, February 23, 2011 3:56 PM
    Moderator
  • I would think so, Cindy, but they haven't announced a mobile client. With their history of overlapping services and product names, it wouldn't surprise me either way. However, my phone is shown on the devices.live.com page right now and it does not have a sync client for Live Sync data or Skydrive Data. I do have Windows Live on the device (WM 6.5). The phone also uses the MyPhone service, which does sync data to the cloud, but has nothing to do with devices.live.com at all.

    What the future holds, we don't know.

    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~


    Please can we have a MS that works with all the departments? Microsoft majorly needs a Defrag!

    The future holds all our devices with (access to) all our data, it's Web 3.0 baby!!


    hi ,

    labs is working on it , .... patience

    have a nice day


    Scan with OneCare + Support ENDING for windows Vista & XP ! + Plagued by the Privacy Center? REMOVE IT + Threat Research & Response Blog + Sysinternals Live tools + TRANSLATOR + Photosynth + Microsoft Security + Microsoft SUPPORT + PIVOT from Live Labs + Microsoft Live Labs + Get OFFICE 2010 FREE ! 
    Wednesday, February 23, 2011 6:07 PM