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  • Question

  •  

    Dears,

     

    I´m investigating if it´s useful in our environment to deploy OCS Frontend Enterprise on our vmware esx cluster. Therefor I need to know how heavy the cpu loud of the frontend server is. You are all invited to post the cpu load of the physical frontend server.

     

    Additionally I wanted to ask how the traffic routed between e.g. two tanjay phones? Is the voice traffic between the two tanyas point-to-point or is it routed over any instance of the ocs?

     

    Is anybody running frontend servers on a vmware esx cluster? If yes, do you have any problems after setting up the system properly?

     

    Thanks and best regards

    Edgar

    Wednesday, February 20, 2008 2:41 PM

All replies

  • Edgar, as I'm in the very basic stages of implementation, I can only comment on our internal front end which was installed with standard edition.

    We have tested all of the internal functionality and have yet to see an issue.
    Voice calls are great, never going beyond 2% utilization
    Video calls are great, never going beyond 3% utilization

    As for tanjay phones, I'm not that far into my development yet.

    But I will say this.
    ALL of our server infrastructure is run inside ESX 3.5 (non clustered)
    This includes Sharepoint 07, Exchange 07, and now OCS 07.
    To date we have had absolutely no issues with this setup and encourage those who have the resources to try this out first before dumping a bunch of money on new hardware.

    Best Regards,
    Matt
    Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:49 PM
  • Hi Edgar,

     

    good to have you here. I would like to make a quick notice. All components of OCS are not supported on any virtualization platform. No VMWare and no VS2005(R2). Please run the BPA to see those commands. Make sure your VM had the following requirements:

     

    CPU

    Dual processor, dual core  2.6 GHz +

    Disk

    2 x 18 GB


    For collocated Standard Edition Server, add:

    2 x 36 GB, 15K RPM, RAID 0, for database log files

    2 x 36 GB, 15K RPM, RAID 0, for database data

     

    Cache

    1 MB L2 per core

    Memory

    2 GB  (4 GB for Standard Edition Server or Consolidated Enterprise Edition Server)

    Network

    GBit NIC

    how many load you will depends on how many users, which functionality you make available etc. Can you send me this information.

     

    Joachim Farla

    http://unified-communications.blogspot.com

     

    Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:38 PM
  • I would like to know why these roles can‘t be run in a virtual environment. What exact reason is there that prevents this?

     

    I‘ve been running a Standard Server, Edge Server and Mediation Server for about 60 users located in three countries running on Virtual Server 2005 R2.

     

    And last weekend I actually moved all those roles to Hyper-V since I‘m using that as a TAP customer. No problems so far.

     

    Of course these roles are not mission critical to us.

     

    Regards,

    Nóri

    Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:28 AM
  • Dears,

     

    thank you for all your reply´s. Our Vmware ESX Cluster (3.0) is currenty equipped with two bladeservers from hp with the following configuration:

     

    Quad-Core CPU with 1,866 ghz each

    14GB of ram

    storage is on a SAN equipped with fibre-channel disks

     

    we are currently hosting arround 640 accounts on LCS 2005. 200 accounts are always online. Currently only chatting is used.

     

    We want to enable enterprise voice via a dialogic dmg4120 and RCC via the estos CCG for about 50 users first. Furthermore we want to deploy live meeting for a maximum load of 10 concurrent meetings with customers. So we are planning o setting up one edge server.

     

    It´s not necessary to deploy CWA (communicator web access) or voip on the edge server. 

     

    Best regards from Europe

    Edgar

    Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:42 AM
  • There was a post today on the OCS Team blog about virtualization. http://communicationsserverteam.com/archive/2008/02/21/88.aspx

     

    Great stuff! I wish the OCS team were a little bit more active on the forums.

     

    Regards,

    Nóri

     

    Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:44 PM
  • This is strange. It seems that the blog post has been removed.

    Friday, February 22, 2008 5:34 PM
  • What did it say Nori?
    Friday, February 22, 2008 9:35 PM
  • Thanks to Outlook RSS feeds and some Recover Deleted Items work here it is:

     

    It’s getting to be a dull roar from customers and the field, “Why doesn’t the OCS 2007 product group support Windows 2003 Virtual Server for large customers’ production environments??” “Hey come on now! You know it would make a lot of sense for customers not to have to purchase all that hardware when some roles could be virtualized!!! What’s up with that?”

     

    Well, (and we always clear our throats here…) The product group’s rationale is primarily related to scalability and media quality and the fact that the component teams will not and cannot support any configuration or software that wasn’t tested to fully ensure the high quality our customers expect and require. “Well, why wouldn’t you test OCS running on Virtual Server?” you may ask. In short, the current version of Virtual Server was not designed to support OCS, not in the way both products were designed and there’s concern about how our “time-warping” RTAudio codec will behave in a virtual environment.

     

    Our server application in the RTM release of OCS 2007 is designed for a multi-threaded/multi-core environment. For those who don’t know, multi-threading is the simultaneous operation of two or more execution streams (or threads) for a single application. On Nov 2, 2006 Intel's Core 2 Extreme QX6700 proc was released. The Multi-core Era began. A multi-core processor contains two or more independent processing units on a single circuit or die. Multi-core processors are now available in dual-core, quad-core and dual quad-core and are designed to improve the performance of multi-threaded applications, such as OCS 2007. But the current version of Virtual Server limits OCS to a single core which places a hard cap on scalability.

     

    And for real-time collaboration media, what we do know from ad-hoc tests gives us cause for concern. Timing for the media platform is critical for AV MCU and Mediation Server due to the way our RTAudio codec works. If the server time gets skewed as can happen in virtual environments, media quality will likely degrade quickly. The reality is virtualization is one more variable in the overall system that can impact quality and at this point in time given that performance on VMs is not yet quantified; we cannot support the Mediation server and AV MCU server roles running on Virtual Server.

     

    So early on the product group knew about the scalability limitations of Virtual Server with respect to the way OCS was designed and in the face of limited test resources and given our aggressive ship schedule for RTM, PM decided not to test performance of OCS on Virtual Server on Windows 2003 to any great extent. There is also a memory limitation applied to applications running on the current version of Virtual Server.  Both of these limitations have been addressed in Windows Server 2008 so in response, the OCS product group has established a roadmap for testing and support of OCS 2007 and future versions of OCS running on Virtual Server 2008.

     

    Of course this is tentative and may change, but our current plan is to move to supporting large-scale production environments on Virtual Server in the Wave 14 (2009) timeframe. This would require Windows Server 2008 as we would want to leverage the improvements made in that operating system release. You may ask, “When will Longhorn be released?” or “How much different will Longhorn be from Windows 2003?” and, “Are you timing the next release of OCS with Longhorn??” Good questions, but here’s all we can say today:

     

    Windows Server 2008 is being launched jointly with Visual Studio 2008 and SQL Server 2008 and as of the date of this blog, Launch is on Feb. 27, 2008, in Los Angeles.


    Here’s a document on the delta between Windows 2003 Server and Windows Server 2008:

     

    http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/library/0e0d96cd-935b-48d0-b5ba-c70a979fadbc1033.mspxhttp://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/library/0e0d96cd-935b-48d0-b5ba-c70a979fadbc1033.mspx

     

    You can also take a look here:  http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/default.mspx


    So in conclusion, our story as of the date of this blog is we do have a roadmap that includes Virtual Server and the current plan of record for the testing is Wave 14 or by the end of 2009. There are no plans to support VMWare… but that’s another argument and another blog for another day.

    Generic non-support statement for VMWare:

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/897615/en-ushttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/897615/en-us

     

    Also see:  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/897614/en-us


    More info on server virtualization at:

     

    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsserver/longhorn/evaluate/whitepaper.mspx?wt.svl=globalhighlight#E3C

     

    -Stu Osborn

    -Program Manager

     

    Saturday, February 23, 2008 6:04 PM
  • Hi All,

     

    OCS componens are not supported on Virtual platforms. If you do that MS will provide their best support but wont take guarantee of resolving the issue.

    Though I have seen many companies running OCS on Virtual platforms.. you might face presence issues or any other abnormalities if you have more than 500 users in virtual environment.

     

     

    Ram Kinker
    MCSE 2003 - Messaging, MCTS- (LCS 2005 & OCS 2007)
    http://www.OCSPedia.com
    http://www.ITCentrics.com

     

    Sunday, February 24, 2008 7:42 AM
  •  

    Hi Nóri, Hi all,

     

    thanks for posting the article.

     

    So the RTAudio Traffic is somehow passing through the server cluster, if I understand correctly?

     

    Best regards

    Edgar

    Monday, February 25, 2008 9:53 AM
  • We're not running a cluster. We have one Standard Edition server, one Mediation Server that connects to our Swyx PBX and one Edge server. All these roles are virtualized on the same virtual server host.

     

    But this configuration is not supported even if it works. For us it's no big deal since I'm running only with 60 users and the roles aren't exactly mission critical to us.

     

    Regards,

    Nóri

    Monday, February 25, 2008 1:02 PM
  • It's a shame MS now writes supportability guides (both OCS and Exchange07) that explicitly remove support for virtualization.  The post above (OCS blog) on rationale behind not supporting VM’s would be a lot more believable if they tested OTHER VM platforms besides Hyper-V.  No wonder there are performance issues..Hyper V is not a mature virtual platform. 

     

    We just had it out with our TAM and PSS reps on the OCS discussion.  It's clear that Microsoft is changing tactics on how they compete with competitors like VMware.  They just won't support them.

     

    I for one will start looking at other support avenues, and eventually something else besides windows to run my infrastructure and support LOB applications.

     

    It’s a shame, but Microsoft is continuing to make one bad decision after another and pushing customers away.

     

    Saturday, June 28, 2008 3:00 AM