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Restore client with raid 5 and realtek RRS feed

  • Question

  • I followed Lara's instructions and my restore cannot find my server. This is supposed to be user friendly for non-geeks. I am a somewhat geek and I cannot solve this.
    When there is an update why not update the resore cd for all registered users.
    Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:57 PM

Answers

  • I finally connected to the server. I am in the process of a 2 hour restore. I will update if fully successful. I am putting a link to anandtech forum where the answer is. It is to download the driver for windows server 2008 and not 2003 in this case. I do not fully comprehend why but it appears to be working. At least I found the server. Stay tuned for updates.

    http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=34&threadid=2292097


    Update: It worked like a charm.
    • Marked as answer by oleshado Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:04 PM
    Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:42 PM

All replies

  • Hi,
    (I would say, "non-geeks" do not use RAID5.)
    If you have a chance to attach the entire RAID to a running WHS client, you could try the method outlined in the FAQ How to restore a client PC, if the network connection does not work in the CD based restore environment.
    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf
    Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:08 PM
    Moderator
  • Make sure the Restore CD shows a network connection and appropriate storage drivers on the hardware detection screen. If it doesn't, extract the drivers from any backup of the computer you want to restore (found in Z:\Windows Home Server Drivers for Restore in every backup).

    If it does, you can try the following:
    • Disconnect your home network from the internet by e.g. shutting off your broadband modem and leaving it shut off until the end of this process.
    • Restart your router.
    • Restart your server.
    • Boot the computer you want to restore from the restore CD.
    • Make sure you supply any required drivers.
    Can you restore now?

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:29 PM
    Moderator
  • Thank you for the quick responses. I have tried your solution and it does not work. I will now elaborate more on the issue.
    There are 7 client PC's . All are accessible with the modem disconnected except the client I need to restore. The client for restore has 3 WD raptor drives in a raid 5 array on a gigabyte motherboard.  The initial round of driver detection does not identify the intel ICHR8 but does after driver install. It does recognize both realtek pci-e 8168/8111 ports. Only one is connected. I am using 3 usb  flash  drives. The first is one with the driver folder from 1 month ago when I restored this client. The second is one from this morning drive z driver folder. the third has the realtek  section replace with the updated driver drom realtek unzipped and placed in the folder ( as per Lara )  I can ping the router and the WHS from the client I am sending this on. I have no internet connectivity. I have to believe this is a network driver issue but I cannot pin this down. Any help would be appreciated.

    Note to Olaf: as this is in internal raid array it would be difficult to install it in another client, but thank you for the suggestion.
    Thursday, May 21, 2009 7:05 PM
  • A whole day watsed trying to restore 1 computer. I could have built 4 in this amount of time. I have tried all kinds of realtek drivers, and almost every day backup of the drivers folder on a usb drive to no avail. Exasperation and frustration are setting in. I have to believe the PP2 update and new connector is causing this issue.


    MICROSOFT ARE YOU LISTENING??? THIS NEVER SHOULD BE THIS HARD. PITY THE AVERAGE USER.

    i BOOTED TO THE ubcd FOR WINDOWS AND i TESTED WIRE CONNECTIVITY AND ALL MY HARDWARE IS WORKING.


    a SPECIAL NOTE OF THANKS TO KEN AND OLAF. wITHOUT THEIR PREVIOUS POSTINGS i WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SOLVE MANY PREVIOUS ISSUES.
    Friday, May 22, 2009 1:38 AM
  • It's not the connector. It's a driver set on the restore disc that just flat out doesn't work. I had the same problem with my setup, and tried every different set of drivers I could find, and even followed Lara's instructions, all to no avail. No matter what driver I load, the NIC link light goes out early in the hardware detection process and doesn't come back on.

    From what I've read while researching this problem, everyone seems to have the same issue with the realtek driver for the NIC you mentioned.

    The solution, until Microsoft recognizes there is a problem, is to either build your own recovery disc, or find a third-party recovery disc. I found one that worked and copied it out to a USB key and stuck it in a drawer for future use.
    Friday, May 22, 2009 10:33 AM
  • Thanks for the insight. Where do you find third party recovery discs?
    Friday, May 22, 2009 10:38 AM
  • I doubt that it's a Power Pack 2 issue. To test you can try uninstalling Power Pack 2 from your server, then see if you can restore this PC. But usually the type of issue you describe isn't related to the server; it's a network configuration issue or a driver/hardware issue on the client side.

    Unfortunately Microsoft has no real ability to solve either issue for you. They don't write the drivers for your hardware; for the most part even the drivers supplied with Windows are written by third parties.

    Have you tried booting the restore CD on another computer, to see if you can establish communication with your server at all? If you can communicate with your server from another computer, there's a practical workaround: buy a PCI NIC with a different chipset (I like Intel based NICs).



    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Friday, May 22, 2009 2:52 PM
    Moderator
  • Ken,

    With all due respect, that seems to be a popular answer to the problem, but I have to disagree with you.

    Microsoft makes the recovery disk. While you are 100% correct that they aren't responsible for the driver, they are ultimately responsible for the disc. They have a bad driver for that particular family of RealTek NIC's, and they need to address it, especially in light of the fact that that NIC is one of the more popular embedded NIC's in use on modern motherboards and netbooks.

    Do a google search on "WHS restore realtek" and look at the number of issues.

    As to your suggestion of the workaround of buying a new NIC - that's a great plan for me, but I'm not going to tell my Mom that she has to have a new piece of (single use) hardware to perform what is promised as out of the box functionality.

    Oleshado,

    I used the restore disk from the WHS X-Files edition. Here's a link, and it works.

    http://forum.wegotserved.com/index.php?showtopic=6471

    Friday, May 22, 2009 3:07 PM
  • ...
    They have a bad driver for that particular family of RealTek NIC's, and they need to address it, especially in light of the fact that that NIC is one of the more popular embedded NIC's in use on modern motherboards and netbooks.

    Do a google search on "WHS restore realtek" and look at the number of issues.
    ...
    I'm aware that a number of people have problems with RealTek NICs. People have trouble with them in situations where Windows Home Server isn't involved, so it's not a Windows Home Server issue per se. And Microsoft doesn't write the drivers, so no, they don't "need to address it"; RealTek needs to address it. (You will have the sense that I don't like RealTek much. That's true. I don't buy RealTek based NICs for a reason.) Or are you suggesting that Microsoft get into the driver-writing business?

    That said, my opinion, which I have conveyed to Microsoft directly (I have channels that the average end user doesn't) is that the Restore CD should be able to work with any storage or network driver that Windows XP or Windows Vista can work with. So I agree with you conceptually, but I don't want a patch for one driver (shims to make some obscure program or driver work are one reason the Windows codebase is so huge), I want an architectural change that will allow a much broader range of drivers to work.

    Perhaps someday this situation will change. If it does, don't expect it to be soon; the Restore CD is probably locked to WinPE for the foreseeable future, and that means tradeoffs and driver issues. In the meantime there are some workarounds that the average Windows Home Server user can implement pretty easily: temporarily connecting the drive to a different computer is something just about anyone can manage.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Friday, May 22, 2009 3:44 PM
    Moderator
  • I'm getting the sense that you might not like Realtek, Ken!

    We're not actually far off in opinion on this. I don't want to imply that Microsoft should deal with it from the perspective of the driver itself. I'm 100% with you on that point. My point is that RealTek HAS addressed it - there is a driver that is properly loaded when slipstreamed into the PE environment. The ball is now in Microsoft's court to either do like you suggested and set up a framework that non-technical people can follow to update drivers, OR release a new restore disk base.

    In any case, you and I can agree to disagree on this one. Hopefully, we've given the OP a few options for accomplishing the objective and getting past the hurdle.

    Kris
    Friday, May 22, 2009 5:42 PM
  • A whole day watsed trying to restore 1 computer. I could have built 4 in this amount of time. I have tried all kinds of realtek drivers, and almost every day backup of the drivers folder on a usb drive to no avail. Exasperation and frustration are setting in. I have to believe the PP2 update and new connector is causing this issue.


    MICROSOFT ARE YOU LISTENING??? THIS NEVER SHOULD BE THIS HARD. PITY THE AVERAGE USER.

    i BOOTED TO THE ubcd FOR WINDOWS AND i TESTED WIRE CONNECTIVITY AND ALL MY HARDWARE IS WORKING.


    a SPECIAL NOTE OF THANKS TO KEN AND OLAF. wITHOUT THEIR PREVIOUS POSTINGS i WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SOLVE MANY PREVIOUS ISSUES.


    I've experienced a similar issue before and ended up using the Realtek drivers from my motherboard's manufacturer website (asus).

    If it is important for you to restore this PC you may want to try another internet adapter.

    The other option is to give up, rebuild the machine & copy your important data from the backup.

    CHris

    Saturday, May 23, 2009 1:13 AM
  • I just came home and read these. I just gained access to demonoid but have never used it. I was not able to locate the ISO. I do not have another day off from my day job ( WHS is hobby /P/T work/enjoyment ). On my next day off I will probably take the time to add or rebuild parts to get this client restored. I am continuing this thread so as to get a solution that is USER friendly from microsoft. The average  user/ small office person does not dismantle computers to restore them. I really like the ideas behind this product but right now I do not feel it is ready for Prime Time. I previously restored this client twice with the current restore disc. The only changes were the server updates performed since.  I guess I could also do a server re-install and then never update it but really does defeat the purpose of the machine. In addition I have helped 6 of my business associates set up the HP version for their home business. What do I tell them if they have to restore a client and run in to similiar issues.  If we got served can build ISO's that solve these issues then why can't Microsoft with all their resources build a new restore cd that works with their updates and post the ISO on their website. Even semi-techs could utilize that.  The argument of realtek/microsoft is a non issue. Hp and many home builders are utilizing this software. With all this power behind this product it is sad that one has to go to a torrent for an ISO. In an earlier post I referred to previous issues. In trying to restore this cliebnt the first time I had issues and I found answers in Kens posting. On another friends connectivity issues and dns I found answers from Olaf. I tip my hat to both of you.  Kris  I thank you for the links. I may try them again tomorrow. Forums like this are a great resource. 

    I think it is time for Microsoft to Step up to the plate.
    Saturday, May 23, 2009 1:44 AM
  • ...
    I previously restored this client twice with the current restore disc. The only changes were the server updates performed since.
    ...
    Given this (which I don't think was stated previously, at least not in this thread) could you please bug this on Connect ? (Yes, needing to submit a bug report makes you feel like you're beta-testing a released product. But bugs don't get fixed if they don't get reported in a channel that lets the software vendor, i.e. Microsoft, actually review them properly, and this forum isn't that channel.) Provide as much information about the issue as you can; ideally logs from your server, a client that you can restore, and the client that you can't (assuming it still boots and it has the connector installed), all collected using the Windows Home Server toolkit.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, May 23, 2009 2:01 PM
    Moderator
  • Note to Kris: I tried using torrent as you suggested ( My first try ) and according to utorrent the file is not available or server is down.
    Note to Ken: Your guidance is solid and when I get another day off I will try to go to connect and submit info which will help everyone.
    In the meantime if anyone out there has any other thoughts on how to restore this client I am all ears. Two things I have not had time to try:

    Get new realtek drivers direct from gigabyte if they are available
    Do a new install of Vista ultimate, and start over. ( a lot of work to reinstall all programs but may be faster then restoring attempts)

    Last thought: When we have issues in posts like this why are the Manufacturers absent from weighing in????????????
    Monday, May 25, 2009 12:57 PM
  • As I am leaving for work now this will be brief. I installed vista ultimate, same key, same computer name, and same password. I installed motherboard drivers, and then ran the connector. The computer found WHS and joined nicely. This verifies hardware connections. I connected to the server remotely and I see 2 computers with the same name. One is backed up and the new one which shows online shows not backed up. I then rebootted and tried a resotore with 2 different WHS driver folders on 2 different USB sticks. One was the original and the other was the folder from the new folder z. Neither restore is able to find the server. Gotta go. Reply more tonight.
    Monday, May 25, 2009 4:05 PM
  • Kris,

    I have tried numerous ways to locate the restore discs to no avail. It appears they were removed from demonoid. Any other thoughts?
    Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:41 AM
  • I finally connected to the server. I am in the process of a 2 hour restore. I will update if fully successful. I am putting a link to anandtech forum where the answer is. It is to download the driver for windows server 2008 and not 2003 in this case. I do not fully comprehend why but it appears to be working. At least I found the server. Stay tuned for updates.

    http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=34&threadid=2292097


    Update: It worked like a charm.
    • Marked as answer by oleshado Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:04 PM
    Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:42 PM
  • I have been restoring from backup successfully using Ken's advice to me about a year ago to install an additional "generic" NIC on the client computers. Since then I have had no problems with Restore finding the Server.

    However, on a new machine just built, using a MSI motherboard and a Intel Atom 230 chip in a micro enclosure, there is no way and no where to use or physically install an alternate NIC.

    As before, I cannot restore any client machine that is connected to the network using a built-in RJ-45 jack on the motherboard, Realtek or others. Restore only works for me with a non-motherboard NIC. Backup works fine, however.

    I would like w way to be able to Restore from backup on this machine.

    Ron

    rongolini
    Monday, July 6, 2009 8:20 PM
  • I have been restoring from backup successfully using Ken's advice to me about a year ago to install an additional "generic" NIC on the client computers. Since then I have had no problems with Restore finding the Server.

    However, on a new machine just built, using a MSI motherboard and a Intel Atom 230 chip in a micro enclosure, there is no way and no where to use or physically install an alternate NIC.

    As before, I cannot restore any client machine that is connected to the network using a built-in RJ-45 jack on the motherboard, Realtek or others. Restore only works for me with a non-motherboard NIC. Backup works fine, however.

    I would like w way to be able to Restore from backup on this machine.

    Ron

    rongolini
    Have you had a chance to try using either the XP/2003 drivers or the 2008 Realtek drivers as listed below?

    Thanks

    Lara Jones [MSFT] | Program Manager
    Community Support and Beta | Windows Home Server Team
    Windows Home Server Team Blog
    Connect Windows Home Server
    Windows Home Server
    Monday, July 6, 2009 9:28 PM
    Moderator
  • Re:
    Have you had a chance to try using either the XP/2003 drivers or the 2008 Realtek drivers as listed below?


    Thanks, Lara, but the two links bring me right back to your original posting and not too sure where "listed below" is.
    Ron
    rongolini
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 1:39 PM
  • Re:
    Have you had a chance to try using either the XP/2003 drivers or the 2008 Realtek drivers as listed below?


    Thanks, Lara, but the two links bring me right back to your original posting and not too sure where "listed below" is.
    Ron
    rongolini

    Well, that's not helpful at all, is it?

    I'm going to have to paste the full links in because I'm hitting a bug on my current Windows 7 build.

    How to update Realtek Drivers During Bare Metal Restore (XP/2003) : http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/whsfaq/thread/b14e3cf2-7b02-4569-8c26-c75b7a58d6e7

    The Windows Server 2008 Driver (I've not tried this and we haven't tested it): http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=34&threadid=2292097

    Thanks!

    Lara Jones [MSFT] | Program Manager
    Community Support and Beta | Windows Home Server Team
    Windows Home Server Team Blog
    Connect Windows Home Server
    Windows Home Server
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 3:55 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks for your response, Lara, which unfortunately did not work. It has taken a while to respond because the workaround solution I discovered involved purchasing a USB to RJ45 converter from eBay. This is not a Realtek based item and completely circumvents the Restore disk's inability to find the server using any Realtek drivers. After starting the Restore disk and loading the USB to RJ45 converter's driver from a thumb drive, the server was instantly located and a total disk restoration was successful. To reiterate, I cannot get the Restore disk to work when using any RJ45 jack on any motherboard, Realtek LAN or not, but must install a generic NIC (as Ken suggested), or when this is not possible, now to use a USB to RJ45 conversion dongle.

    Ron
    rongolini
    Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:47 PM