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Questioned On Item That Is Not On Syllabus RRS feed

Answers

  • The syllabus must contain a complete list of items that can be asked in the exam: this is standard procedure for all academic instutions.

    It simply is not credible, and neither just nor fair, for Microsoft, or any other examiner, to ask questions that do not appear, explicitly, on the syllabus.

    Microsoft's, "catch all", "may include but is not limited to" is neither just nor fair and must, in the interest of fairness to all students, be removed from all their syllabuses.

    There is little point in having syllabus at all if the examiner can then ask questions that are not on the syllabus!



    So are you saying that every non-Microsoft exam around the world is currently accompanied by a syllabus containing details of every topic covered within the exam?  I doubt it.  I’ve got two Masters Degrees and about 40% of the questions in all the exams I sat were not directly covered in the exam syllabus.

    If you release a syllabus which states that an exam will cover a, b and c, then you’ll get experts in a, b and c because that’s all people will study.  Passing an exam such as this is far from proving that you’re an expert in the technology covered in the exam.  All it is proving is that you can study what you’ve been told to study and that you’ve shown little or no initiative in researching all the potential topics which could be covered in an exam.

    BTW, from http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa338205(v=office.12).aspx#office2007aboutnewfileformat_introduction:

    The 2007 Microsoft Office system continues with this transition by adopting an XML-based file format for Microsoft Office Excel 2007, Microsoft Office Word 2007, and Microsoft Office PowerPoint 2007. The new file format, called Office Open XML Formats, addresses these workplace issues with changes that affect the way that you approach solutions based on Microsoft Office documents.

    Given that this was a new feature for Excel 2007, it should be expected that some XML content would be in the Excel 2007 exam.


    When you see answers and helpful posts, please click Vote As Helpful, Propose As Answer, and/or Mark As Answer

    Jeff Wharton
    MSysDev (C.Sturt), MDbDsgnMgt (C.Sturt), MCT, MCPD, MCSD, MCITP, MCDBA
    Blog: Mr. Wharty's Ramblings
    Twitter: @Mr_Wharty
    MC ID: Microsoft Transcript

    • Proposed as answer by Konrad NeitzelEditor Monday, February 27, 2012 8:31 AM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Monday, February 27, 2012 1:46 PM
    • Proposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Monday, February 27, 2012 9:50 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Tuesday, February 28, 2012 5:50 AM
    • Marked as answer by Mr. Wharty Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:24 PM
    • Unmarked as answer by Mr. Wharty Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:26 PM
    • Marked as answer by Horizon_NetEditor Monday, March 5, 2012 11:55 AM
    Monday, February 27, 2012 8:17 AM
  • The "Skills Measured" tab on the exam-page at Microsoft Learning is just a guide to help you prepare the exam. It's not an official list of all the topics covered by the exam as stated in the second paragraph:

    The information after “This objective may include but is not limited to” is intended to further define or scope the objective by describing the types of skills and topics that may be tested for the objective. However, it is not an exhaustive list of skills and topics that could be included on the exam for a given skill area. You may be tested on other skills and topics related to the objective that are not explicitly listed here. - source

    Also on the page:

    Import data from an external source.

    This objective may include but is not limited to: importing data from a text file, importing data by using a Web query, using the Microsoft Query Wizard to edit an existing query, and referencing data in a database

    Basically that line covers any possible form that can be considered an "external source".


    Dimitri C. - Please mark the replies as answers if they help! Thanks.

    • Proposed as answer by Horizon_NetEditor Monday, February 27, 2012 1:13 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Monday, February 27, 2012 1:43 PM
    • Proposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Monday, February 27, 2012 9:50 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Tuesday, February 28, 2012 5:49 AM
    • Marked as answer by Mr. Wharty Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:24 PM
    • Unmarked as answer by Mr. Wharty Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:41 PM
    • Marked as answer by Horizon_NetEditor Monday, March 5, 2012 11:56 AM
    Monday, February 27, 2012 6:56 AM
  • Hi Jeff,

    I agree to that but I am still interested in some more details of the question. But Excel is used to work with data and a common data format is simply XML. I found XML in so many locations where applications exported or saved data. So an expert with excel should know some XML basics and how to get the data into excel or so.

    And that would even be on the list as I mentioned in my first reply (even that xml is not directly given).

    And maybe there is even one point that wasn't checked / discussed:
    Was that a question that was rated? Maybe is was a question that didn't matter at all. Such questions can also be part of an exam. We cannot know what was going on if it is not appropiate for the TE to give more details and noone from Microsoft checks it / clarifies it.

    So all we have in the moment are our personal views on the topic which differ and I don't expect that anyone will change his view on the small information we have so far.

    With kind regards,

    Konrad

    • Proposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Monday, February 27, 2012 8:43 AM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Monday, February 27, 2012 9:50 AM
    • Proposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Monday, February 27, 2012 9:50 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Tuesday, February 28, 2012 6:00 AM
    • Proposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:24 PM
    • Marked as answer by Mr. Wharty Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:24 PM
    • Unmarked as answer by Mr. Wharty Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:41 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:42 PM
    • Marked as answer by Horizon_NetEditor Monday, March 5, 2012 11:55 AM
    Monday, February 27, 2012 8:41 AM
    Answerer

All replies

  • Hi,

    without further details on the question, it could have been part of "Import data from an external source". Even if it wasn't explicitly listened in there, it was directly stated: "This objective may include but is not limited to: ....".

    With kind regards,

    Konrad 

    Friday, December 9, 2011 12:22 PM
    Answerer
  • It would not be appropriate for me to reveal details of the question.

    "This objective may include but is not limited to" is not really reasonable in any exam syllabus which should state, explicitly, the areas on which the student might be expected to be questioned on.

     

    Friday, December 9, 2011 3:50 PM
  • The "Skills Measured" tab on the exam-page at Microsoft Learning is just a guide to help you prepare the exam. It's not an official list of all the topics covered by the exam as stated in the second paragraph:

    The information after “This objective may include but is not limited to” is intended to further define or scope the objective by describing the types of skills and topics that may be tested for the objective. However, it is not an exhaustive list of skills and topics that could be included on the exam for a given skill area. You may be tested on other skills and topics related to the objective that are not explicitly listed here. - source

    Also on the page:

    Import data from an external source.

    This objective may include but is not limited to: importing data from a text file, importing data by using a Web query, using the Microsoft Query Wizard to edit an existing query, and referencing data in a database

    Basically that line covers any possible form that can be considered an "external source".


    Dimitri C. - Please mark the replies as answers if they help! Thanks.

    • Proposed as answer by Horizon_NetEditor Monday, February 27, 2012 1:13 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Monday, February 27, 2012 1:43 PM
    • Proposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Monday, February 27, 2012 9:50 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Tuesday, February 28, 2012 5:49 AM
    • Marked as answer by Mr. Wharty Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:24 PM
    • Unmarked as answer by Mr. Wharty Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:41 PM
    • Marked as answer by Horizon_NetEditor Monday, March 5, 2012 11:56 AM
    Monday, February 27, 2012 6:56 AM
  • The syllabus must contain a complete list of items that can be asked in the exam: this is standard procedure for all academic instutions.

    It simply is not credible, and neither just nor fair, for Microsoft, or any other examiner, to ask questions that do not appear, explicitly, on the syllabus.

    Microsoft's, "catch all", "may include but is not limited to" is neither just nor fair and must, in the interest of fairness to all students, be removed from all their syllabuses.

    There is little point in having syllabus at all if the examiner can then ask questions that are not on the syllabus!



    Monday, February 27, 2012 7:20 AM
  • The syllabus must contain a complete list of items that can be asked in the exam: this is standard procedure for all academic instutions.

    It simply is not credible, and neither just nor fair, for Microsoft, or any other examiner, to ask questions that do not appear, explicitly, on the syllabus.

    Microsoft's, "catch all", "may include but is not limited to" is neither just nor fair and must, in the interest of fairness to all students, be removed from all their syllabuses.

    There is little point in having syllabus at all if the examiner can then ask questions that are not on the syllabus!



    So are you saying that every non-Microsoft exam around the world is currently accompanied by a syllabus containing details of every topic covered within the exam?  I doubt it.  I’ve got two Masters Degrees and about 40% of the questions in all the exams I sat were not directly covered in the exam syllabus.

    If you release a syllabus which states that an exam will cover a, b and c, then you’ll get experts in a, b and c because that’s all people will study.  Passing an exam such as this is far from proving that you’re an expert in the technology covered in the exam.  All it is proving is that you can study what you’ve been told to study and that you’ve shown little or no initiative in researching all the potential topics which could be covered in an exam.

    BTW, from http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa338205(v=office.12).aspx#office2007aboutnewfileformat_introduction:

    The 2007 Microsoft Office system continues with this transition by adopting an XML-based file format for Microsoft Office Excel 2007, Microsoft Office Word 2007, and Microsoft Office PowerPoint 2007. The new file format, called Office Open XML Formats, addresses these workplace issues with changes that affect the way that you approach solutions based on Microsoft Office documents.

    Given that this was a new feature for Excel 2007, it should be expected that some XML content would be in the Excel 2007 exam.


    When you see answers and helpful posts, please click Vote As Helpful, Propose As Answer, and/or Mark As Answer

    Jeff Wharton
    MSysDev (C.Sturt), MDbDsgnMgt (C.Sturt), MCT, MCPD, MCSD, MCITP, MCDBA
    Blog: Mr. Wharty's Ramblings
    Twitter: @Mr_Wharty
    MC ID: Microsoft Transcript

    • Proposed as answer by Konrad NeitzelEditor Monday, February 27, 2012 8:31 AM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Monday, February 27, 2012 1:46 PM
    • Proposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Monday, February 27, 2012 9:50 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Tuesday, February 28, 2012 5:50 AM
    • Marked as answer by Mr. Wharty Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:24 PM
    • Unmarked as answer by Mr. Wharty Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:26 PM
    • Marked as answer by Horizon_NetEditor Monday, March 5, 2012 11:55 AM
    Monday, February 27, 2012 8:17 AM
  • Hi Jeff,

    I agree to that but I am still interested in some more details of the question. But Excel is used to work with data and a common data format is simply XML. I found XML in so many locations where applications exported or saved data. So an expert with excel should know some XML basics and how to get the data into excel or so.

    And that would even be on the list as I mentioned in my first reply (even that xml is not directly given).

    And maybe there is even one point that wasn't checked / discussed:
    Was that a question that was rated? Maybe is was a question that didn't matter at all. Such questions can also be part of an exam. We cannot know what was going on if it is not appropiate for the TE to give more details and noone from Microsoft checks it / clarifies it.

    So all we have in the moment are our personal views on the topic which differ and I don't expect that anyone will change his view on the small information we have so far.

    With kind regards,

    Konrad

    • Proposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Monday, February 27, 2012 8:43 AM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Monday, February 27, 2012 9:50 AM
    • Proposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Monday, February 27, 2012 9:50 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by trip_to_tokyo Tuesday, February 28, 2012 6:00 AM
    • Proposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:24 PM
    • Marked as answer by Mr. Wharty Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:24 PM
    • Unmarked as answer by Mr. Wharty Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:41 PM
    • Unproposed as answer by Mr. Wharty Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:42 PM
    • Marked as answer by Horizon_NetEditor Monday, March 5, 2012 11:55 AM
    Monday, February 27, 2012 8:41 AM
    Answerer
  • I will come back to this issue when I have more time to do it justice.
    Monday, February 27, 2012 9:51 AM