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Folder duplication when 1 drive is empty RRS feed

  • Question

  • After I added a new drive to my system I ended up with 3 drives at about 97%+ full and one drive that was completely empty.  After dragging data to the new drive I then turned on folder duplication and got an error that not enough drives were found with free space.

     

    I figured WHS would copy duplicated data from another drive onto the new empty drive so the data on the new drive could be duplicated but instead it just gave the error.   I let a few hours pass and I didn't see duplication grow and when monitoring the drives they didn't show activity like it was moving data to fix the problem.

     

    I didn't want to manually move around gigs worth of data to solve the problem so I ended up just turning off folder duplication on everything and figured once I turn it back on, it will duplicate properly since there is now free space on all drives.  I have another HP MSS with all my data on it so I wasn't worried about turning off duplication and leaving it off for now.

     

    Is this something that should be working on my system, and if not is it something that will be added later?  I'm still undecided if I like pooled storage or not and these little non-automated features are things I'd have to do manually anyway if I chose non-pooled storage. Right now I still prefer non-pooled drives mainly due to performance vs pooled drive features.

     

    Friday, July 18, 2008 10:39 PM

All replies

  •  socals wrote:
    After I added a new drive to my system I ended up with 3 drives at about 97%+ full and one drive that was completely empty.  After dragging data to the new drive I then turned on folder duplication and got an error that not enough drives were found with free space.

     

    I figured WHS would copy duplicated data from another drive onto the new empty drive so the data on the new drive could be duplicated but instead it just gave the error.   I let a few hours pass and I didn't see duplication grow and when monitoring the drives they didn't show activity like it was moving data to fix the problem.

     

    I didn't want to manually move around gigs worth of data to solve the problem so I ended up just turning off folder duplication on everything and figured once I turn it back on, it will duplicate properly since there is now free space on all drives.  I have another HP MSS with all my data on it so I wasn't worried about turning off duplication and leaving it off for now.

     

    Is this something that should be working on my system, and if not is it something that will be added later?

     

    How many GBs of data is in the share(s) that you enabled Folder Duplication on?  How big is the hard drive you added?

     

     socals wrote:
    I'm still undecided if I like pooled storage or not and these little non-automated features are things I'd have to do manually anyway if I chose non-pooled storage. Right now I still prefer non-pooled drives mainly due to performance vs pooled drive features.

    Saturday, July 19, 2008 12:09 AM
    Moderator
  • The original drives are back in the system since I have folder duplication turned off.  Here are the current storage stats:

     

    2.05 TB total space (3x500GB + 1x750GB) with 1.1TB in shared folders and 970GB of free space.  (no duplication is turned on)

     

    I had removed one 500GB drive and replaced it with a 1TB drive.  Based on what I have today, swapping out a 500GB for a 1 TB would give me aprox 2.5 GB of total space with around 1.4 TB of free space or so, enough for folder duplication and a few hundred gigs of free space.

     

    I don't remember the storage stats before I added the new data, but based on what I currently have on the server it seems like swapping the 500 GB for the 1 TB would still allow me to turn on folder duplication for all shares.

     

    Luckly, I just found a screenshot I took of the original error etc:

     

    http://globware.com/images/whserr.png

     

    As you can see in the image, it duplicated most of my data except for less than 200 GB, yet there is over 400 GB free.

    Saturday, July 19, 2008 1:24 AM
  •  socals wrote:

    The original drives are back in the system since I have folder duplication turned off.  Here are the current storage stats:

     

    2.05 TB total space (3x500GB + 1x750GB) with 1.1TB in shared folders and 970GB of free space.  (no duplication is turned on)

     

    I had removed one 500GB drive and replaced it with a 1TB drive.  Based on what I have today, swapping out a 500GB for a 1 TB would give me aprox 2.5 GB of total space with around 1.4 TB of free space or so, enough for folder duplication and a few hundred gigs of free space.

     

    I don't remember the storage stats before I added the new data, but based on what I currently have on the server it seems like swapping the 500 GB for the 1 TB would still allow me to turn on folder duplication for all shares.

     

    Luckly, I just found a screenshot I took of the original error etc:

     

    http://globware.com/images/whserr.png

     

    As you can see in the image, it duplicated most of my data except for less than 200 GB, yet there is over 400 GB free.

     

    I agree, that does seem strange.  Have you installed PP1 beta?  If so, you might want to submit a bug report on Connect.  Just out of curiosity, how much space is being used by Backup TV (since that seems to be the one it's having a problem with)?

    Saturday, July 19, 2008 2:04 AM
    Moderator
  • First, you should submit a bug report on Connect. I don't think Drive Extender is actually working quite as intended; if it's possible to duplicate everything, Windows Home Server should ge able to do so.

    Now, as to what happened and why you're in the place you are today... When you removed a drive, you reduced your free storage pool space temporarily to perhaps 470 GB or so (very close to the 440 GB now being reported). When you added the 1 TB drive, you increased your storage pool to 1.5 Tb (approximately). The algorithm that Windows Home Server uses to determine what drive to use for a file (or duplicate) tends to reuse the same driver until it's full. So what probably has happened is that you have filled (or nearly filled) the 1 TB drive with duplicates, and the free space in your storage pool is primarily on another driver, one which contains some of your recorded TV files. Those files can't be duplicated onto the same drive, and there is insufficient room on other drives to duplicate them, so Windows Home Server displays that network health warning.
    Saturday, July 19, 2008 2:24 AM
    Moderator
  • Ken, I think you are right.

    To add to this: according to Chris Grey's explanation DE will leave about 10% free space on each disk. This is to protect against problems when existing files grow in size. Maybe as a result at least 10% of the 2.5GBytes free will not be used to store (additional) files? In this case the effective free space would be 10% less then reported, about 2.25 GByte in this case. Not accounting the fact the files can not be fragmented across multiple disk.

    Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:37 PM
    Moderator
  •  kariya21 wrote:
    Just out of curiosity, how much space is being used by Backup TV (since that seems to be the one it's having a problem with)?

     

    Weird enough Backup TV is only 204.99GB so it is possible that it didn't duplicate any of these files, or very few.  Most of my files are smaller than 1 GB except for my Backup TV which are aprox 1GB - 10GB. 

     

    BTW, this was with PP1 Beta (the first, original download).

    Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:41 AM
  • I had a similar thought when i added a new 1Tb drive to my existing 3x500Gb drives showing 700Gb free.. When I looked through disk management, I saw that the system drive was 12%, one drive was 97% and the other was at 68%. I like the idea of the "Landing Zone" being as open as possible (as per other posts) and wondered how additional files would be handled for Duplication (I have duplication on all folders). One drive was essentially full, so any duplication would have to go to secondary storage.

    Therefore I added the 1TB drive. I thought some more about the duplication and realized that the same situation still existed - newly added files could live on the new empty 1TB, but the only drive with much room for the duplication was the D: partition as the other 2 were full and almost full.

    The solution seemed simple though. With the new drive already installed, I "removed" the drive which was 97% full The dialog box said there was "no risk". That job took several hours, but complete without any problems at all, and when complete, i just re-added it. I now have the new 1Tb at 42%, one of the 500s at 66% and the other one empty. The system drive is still at 12%.

    Got me thinking more about folder duplication and the new algorithm for how files are migrated. Have to look into that further...

     

     

     

    Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:20 PM
  • PCMechanics,

    Yes. FYI, you might also want to have a look at this thread?

    Sunday, July 27, 2008 5:59 PM
    Moderator