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WHS system drive about to fail RRS feed

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    I came down stairs this mornng to find that the hard drive on which WHS is installed on is "wheezing" and failing. The server had crashed. I managed to boot into safe mode and checked Event Viewer and sure enough there were errors on \device\ide\drive 1.
    I've been trying to clone the drive with Knoppix Linux and DD but during the clone process I'm getting I/O errors and the cloning isn't working.  I'm going to give Ghost a shot and see if it works.

    My question is...
     If attempts at cloning fail and I have to do a new install on a new hard drive can I simply re-attach the data storage partition so that I don't loose all my data? If not, perhaps there are special files that I can copy from the original installation and past into the new installation to trick WHS into simply running with the existing data partition?

    Any ideas anyone?

    Thanks in advance.

    Bobby
    Monday, November 17, 2008 7:25 PM

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    Hi,
    you can not clone the system drive. It is not supported, but the main trouble usually comes from references to the disk ID, which make WHS fail to recognize drive D: properly.
    Replace the disk and try a Server Reinstall (there are tow installation modes, a new install, which wipes all disks, and the reinstall, which preserves the data).
    Collect the Windows Updates including Power Pack 1 and recreate the user accounts.
    If that has been succeeded (may take a while, since all the tombstones have to be rebuild), check the old disk. There is a hidden folder DE, with a subfolder shares, which may contain some of your files in shared folders (originals or duplicates).
    Copy those to subfolders via the link shared folders on server.
    Finally on the clients run discovery.exe from C:\Program Files\Windows Home Server to reestablish the connection, configure remote settings on the server and reinstall Add-Ins, which you used.
    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf
    Monday, November 17, 2008 8:18 PM
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    Hi,
    you can not clone the system drive. It is not supported, but the main trouble usually comes from references to the disk ID, which make WHS fail to recognize drive D: properly.
    Replace the disk and try a Server Reinstall (there are tow installation modes, a new install, which wipes all disks, and the reinstall, which preserves the data).
    Collect the Windows Updates including Power Pack 1 and recreate the user accounts.
    If that has been succeeded (may take a while, since all the tombstones have to be rebuild), check the old disk. There is a hidden folder DE, with a subfolder shares, which may contain some of your files in shared folders (originals or duplicates).
    Copy those to subfolders via the link shared folders on server.
    Finally on the clients run discovery.exe from C:\Program Files\Windows Home Server to reestablish the connection, configure remote settings on the server and reinstall Add-Ins, which you used.
    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf
    Monday, November 17, 2008 8:18 PM
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     update.

    I came across a couple of similar posts with details on doing a WHS Reinstall which is non-distructive. That option would be great but the problem is my drive is failing so I don't get the reinstall option with a new drive.

    I managed to get the partition tables duplicated by booting into Norton Ghost 2006 and manually creating them with the same exact values of the original drive.
    I also was able to get Ghost to clone the SYS partition over to the new drive.
    Both DD (via Knoppix Linux) and Ghost are having trouble cloning the DATA partition on the same drive. It appears that the bad blocks and stuff are in that are of the drive.

    I booted into the original WHS installation (on the drive that is failing) and manually copied the contents of the DATA partition to the same partition on the new disk. Everything is not copying over though so if I boot into the cloned WHS install on the new drive all of my data is missing (the disks report alot of used space but nothing shows up in the shares). I'm guessing that the Tombstones didn't copy over properly.

    So I' still fighting with getting the DATA partition cloned/copied/moved over to the new drive.
    Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:52 PM
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    Disk cloning software usually doesn't work well when the disk being cloned is failing, as in your case.

    If you have multiple disks, the proper procedure is to remove the failing system drive, replace it with a new drive, and perform a server reinstallation or server recovery (recovery for those with an OEM product like those from HP or Fujitsu-Siemens). If you need drivers for WHS to see all of your storage drives, you will need to supply them during the initial phase of setup, where it's showing you what drives it sees. If you need drivers to see your system drive, then you will need to supply them twice. The first time is at that hardware discovery screen, and the second is just after the reboot into text mode setup, at the "Press F6" prompt. In the latter case (you need drivers for the system drive too) you will need to supply the drivers on floppy the second time.

    Once you've gotten over those hurdles, Windows Home Server will automatically pick up all the files in your shares, and (usually) your backup database. What will be lost will be any files that were stored in shares not marked for duplication and that were being kept on your system drive due to lack of space elsewhere, users, other settings, add-ins, and software you may have installed or changed. Possibly (if components of the backup database were on the system drive) you will lose the backup database.

    If you have only a single disk and that disk fails, you have a hard decision to make. Data recovery services can often recover most of the data off of even severely damaged drives, but they are very expensive. (In the multiple thousands of dollars in some cases.) Or you can try data recovery software, but you should be aware that such software doesn't always succeed, and my cause sufficient additional damage to the disk that it imparis the ability of a data recover service to get your data back.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:20 PM
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     My primary drive has failed also and I have tried several times to get  a server reinstall, it always shows new install.  I installed a new drive and booted with my 3 other drives still connected and it will never show reinstall after I install my hd drivers.  I unplugged all my drives except primary and it just shows new install only.  I had several important folders set for duplication that I need on these drives.

    Ken, I don't understand what you mean by supplying the drivers twice.  The first time I supply the driver the next screen shows the hard drive, after that it shows the new install screen.  It never shows reinstall option.  What is the text mode setup, press f6 prompt? 

    I tried a new install with my data drives unplugged except primary.  It installed ok, I then booted on the dvd and started a install again and it showed the reinstall option, but if I connect all my drives again and boot the reinstall option in gone.  This is frustrating!! 

    Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:29 AM
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    Hi,
    server reinstall is only offered, if the primary drive is found as disk 0 - as the first drive on your disk. So it must be connected at the proper position, be selected as boot drive in Bios and maybe some luck factor goes in as well (just recently I read something about somebody tried to reboot multiple times with the DVD in before getting a reinstall offered.) Can also help, if the SATA controller is set to IDE/ATAPI compatibility mode
    There seem to be some situations other than that, in which a server reinstall is not offered:
    • corrupt D: drive
    • damaged WHS installation (which may also have had influence on the data structure on the other partitions, so that the WHS routine does not longer detect the content properly)
    • could also be, that the time, when mass storage drivers are loaded, has an influence
    The second stage of providing drivers comes only (sometimes), after the installation/reinstallation has already be selected and the first reboot has been done.

    What you can do, is to take your clean installation (after patching up including Power Pack 1), attach one of the data disks and logon to the desktop of Windows Home Server.
    In Control Panel, Folder options enable Show hidden files and folders.
    In Windows Explorer navigate to the hidden folder DE on the attached disk. Here you find a subfolder shares, below that the shared folders (or parts of them) and/or duplicated folders from the former install.
    Copy the files and folders you want to preserve via shortcut Shared folders on Server to the target (or temporary to a client PC), after that add the disk to the storage pool again.
    Shut down, attach the next disk and repeat.
    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf
    Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:11 AM
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    The server reinstall option is great in a situation where the SYS partition got really messed up some how; you can reinstall WHS in a non distructive manner and retain all of your data. This option should only be available  if the dvd installation detects an existing WHS installation on a hard drive.

    Now my situation is different. System drive is going bad. I can still get it to boot and run but its starting to make some noice and I know now that there are some bad clusters in there somewhere.
    Microsoft didn't give us an option to recover from this type of situation.
    It is possible but it's pretty much a manual process. You have to try and image you drive or the partitions and then put that image on a new drive. If your drive has bad clusters (like mine) or is damaged in some other way then the imaging doesn't work. In this situation the only solution is to istall the new drive, do a fresh install of WHS (or do the recovery in the case of a retail WHS machine like Ken mentioned above), and copy all of your data back onto the WHS once everything has been configured and it is ready to recieve data.

    This is very poor planning on Microsofts part. The WHS is awsome! Until the main system drive crashes then you are SOL (if you dont have another backup of all of your data).

    Microsoft needs to add a feature to WHS where it backs itself up just like it does with the client systems on the network, but also backs up whatever else there may be on the same physical drive it is on. So when a hard drive failure sends WHS down the taoilet, we can simply replace the drive, boot from the install DVD or Restore CD, it detects the server backup on one of the other drives, it restores itself onto the  new hard drive, and after a short while we are back up and running.

    With my situation... like I mentioned previously, I was able to save my boot sector using Linux, image my SYS partition with Ghost, and put it on a new drive. It booted just fine. The problem came with the DATA partition on the same drive. It appears that the damage resides on that part of the HDD. I've tried many ways to get the data off of there (imaging, bit-by-bit copying, etc) and to put it on the new drive but once I boot up with the new drive my shares are empty and or the backup database is damage, etc, etc, etc.

    I've spent too much time on this already so I'm down to reinstalling from scratch on a new hard drive and I'm gonna have to spend a day getting all of my data copied back over to the WHS again (yes I have more copies of my data, both on another computer and on a stack of about 40 dual layer dvds).

    Microsoft, wake up and smell the coffee. Give us a good solution here!!!


    Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:37 PM
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    Hi,
    The server re-install isn't only offered when your system partition is messed up; it is offered when you use a completely new drive as a replacement. The DVD looks for other WHS info on other disks, and if it sees any, it will then offer you the two choices of a re-install and a new install.
    Over the last year or so, I have done multiple installs/re-installs, both to an existing disk and to replacement disks with no problems whatsoever and this is on a variety of hardware combinations.

    As Olaf said above, the main reason that the re-install isn't offered, is due to the boot order not being recognised, or the necessary drivers not being installed. Also, one of the other common issue, is when a new server is built with one (or two) disks, then other disks are added afterwards. WHS on installation, will see the first bootable disk as the system disk; however, when further disks are added, they can well be connected earlier in the boot order.

    Colin



    If anyone answers your query successfully, please mark it as 'Helpful', to guide other users.
    Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:15 PM
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    I see.
    I thought that the Server Restore (thats how it showed up when I tried it) would only be available if it detected the installation itself.

    Well I gave it a shot.
    Didn't work.
    At the end it gave me some error about reconstructing all of the data. It said that WHS installation had failed and it kicked me to the server desktop. No WHS features were anywhere to be found. It was just the SBS desktop.

    I think I know why though. I gave it the drivers for my SATA card when it first asked for it and it was cool. When the installation reboots and continues with the better know Win2000/XP type of install (the one with the blue screen) and it says to hit F6 to lead storage drivers... well, it never comes around and asks for the drivers. Its as if I never hit F6 at all. It was kinda wierd. I've installed Win 2K/XP hundreds of times so I'm familiar with that part of the install but this one just plain ignored my F6 input.

    Oh, well. Got tired of trying. I just blew-out all the drives and started from scratch. I have had SyncToy running (to copy everything back onto WHS) since yesterday around 8pm and it still looks like it has another hour or two to go.
    Boy I got a butt-load of stuff; 248k files and counting!

    Friday, November 21, 2008 2:46 AM
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    Hi,
    mcgyverbob said:

    Well I gave it a shot.
    Didn't work.
    At the end it gave me some error about reconstructing all of the data. It said that WHS installation had failed and it kicked me to the server desktop. No WHS features were anywhere to be found. It was just the SBS desktop.

    I think I know why though. I gave it the drivers for my SATA card when it first asked for it and it was cool. When the installation reboots and continues with the better know Win2000/XP type of install (the one with the blue screen) and it says to hit F6 to lead storage drivers... well, it never comes around and asks for the drivers. Its as if I never hit F6 at all. It was kinda wierd. I've installed Win 2K/XP hundreds of times so I'm familiar with that part of the install but this one just plain ignored my F6 input.


    so you say, server reinstall was offered and starting, but the SATA disks attached to the former installation have not been detected due to the inability to integrate the drivers?
    Maybe your F6 keypress being ignored has to do with the Bios not properly supporting USB input devices. (I have a Dell Optiplex 270 here, which has the entry in the menu for legacy USB support, but anyway ignores any attempt to press a key on an USB keyboard during the startup stage.)

    So the theory now: without the disks attached the tombstones could not be rebuilt, therefore the reinstall operation failed.
    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf
    Friday, November 21, 2008 7:04 AM
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    I am having a very similar problem. I'm trying to replace a failing 500GB SATA hard drive with a WD 2TB SATA drive and run a "server reinstall", which seems to work, but none of the data drives are seen as data drives, they are seen as disks not added to the storage pool. I really have tried just about everything except the "registry entry  trick" so far. Right now, I'm copying all of my data (3TB) from the server to another disk (2, actually), then I'll do a fresh server install with the new SATA drives, then recreate all of my shares and copy the 3TB of data over the network back to the server. Overall, I've been very happy with WHS over the past 4 years or so I've had it, but this is the end of the road. The inability to "seamlessly" replace a failed system drive is a showstopper for me and I will be looking for a suitable replacement for the WHS solution ASAP.
    Art Zasadny
    Sunday, December 5, 2010 3:13 PM
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    Hi Art,

    this behavior has usually to do with the situation, how Windows Server 2003 detects drives.

    An SATA drive in native mode requires not only SATA drivers in the proper moment (provided twice in installation process, since Windows Server 2003 has no built in SATA drivers), but needs also have the disks in proper sequence connected and set in Bios. The disks need to be visible on first screen, and later you will have to provide the drivers on a floppy drive again during the blue screen stage of classic setup.

    If you are able too, it could help to change the SATA controller mode to IDE compatible unless the number of disks is too high. Finally it can happen that the failing disk with crashing OS also destroyed some WHS related informations on the other drives, so that they are not detected as members.

    Best greetings from (Poland)
    Olaf

    Sunday, December 5, 2010 9:07 PM
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