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Migration from V1 home server to Vail Edition RRS feed

  • Question

  • As title when its finally released to OEM and most if not all of us users piurchase a disc and the relevant hardware whats the upgrade path from V1 to Vail

     

    I have had to do a new instal on V1 and then attach each drive and copy files over

     

    Its a pain in the rear and toooo time consuming

    i have 10 x 1tb drives and upto now its taking 48hrs to do each 1TB drive

     

    thats 20 days to migrate files over

     

    Are we expected to need to do this again when we get the vail system if we cannot do a inplace upgrade on our existing system

    Saturday, May 29, 2010 7:36 PM

Answers


  • As you may know for VAIL public beta there is no upgrade path. And even though I have no information on this I doubt there will be one available for final RTM release.

    So yes - unless you buy or build a second WHSv2 box - I supose you wil have to manually move all your files to the new v2 file system.

    - Theo.


    No home server like Home Server
    Saturday, May 29, 2010 7:58 PM
    Moderator
  • I expect the migration path to be a manual one, as Theo has said. You will have two servers running in parallel and you will copy from one to the other. Or you will connect drives, one at a time, from your V1 server to your Vail server and copy directly to the DE volumes.

    Whatever you do, I expect you will do it by hand.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:15 PM
    Moderator

All replies


  • As you may know for VAIL public beta there is no upgrade path. And even though I have no information on this I doubt there will be one available for final RTM release.

    So yes - unless you buy or build a second WHSv2 box - I supose you wil have to manually move all your files to the new v2 file system.

    - Theo.


    No home server like Home Server
    Saturday, May 29, 2010 7:58 PM
    Moderator
  • thanks theo

     

     

    my issue is i have now build two extra vail ready servers with 10 x1tb drives each

     

    But after the pain of having to rebuild my V1 server i really do not want to go thro the same getting the folders etc onto the vail system

     

     

    surely microsoft can address this with some migration tools

    Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:12 PM
  • I expect the migration path to be a manual one, as Theo has said. You will have two servers running in parallel and you will copy from one to the other. Or you will connect drives, one at a time, from your V1 server to your Vail server and copy directly to the DE volumes.

    Whatever you do, I expect you will do it by hand.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:15 PM
    Moderator
  • just a quick question then if i may

     

    i have a new build v1 server running pp3 and all the updates  ready with 7 x 1tb drives all internal sata wd green

     

    i have connected up one of my old v1 sata drives internally  onto the spare sata connector on the motherboard  and i am copying over the files from my old drive to the shares using the desktop shortcut but its taking what seems like a long time 48hrs roughly todo one 1tb drive

     

    will the same be the same for the vail system slow as ____ :-)

    Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:23 PM

  • I have no performance data on copying files from within disks on VAIL public beta.

    But when doing some small test I see speeds that are in the same order of the speeds expected for standard drive copy performance.
    As with VAIL's Drive Extender V2 one does not need to go through the shares I would expect it to be a lot faster compared to WHSv1. Also taking in account that when duplication is enabled disk write speeds are at half that of the normal writes speed, which is to be expected as all data has to be written twice.

    So my wild guess would be that when copying files from an external disk directly to the local drive letter for the share one can expect speeds in the order of 20-50 MBytes/second without duplication, depending on the performace of your drives and server (worse case... 1000000MB/(20MB*60*60).. lets say about 14 hours for a single 1T disk?).
    Note: I did not test this, so I could be totally wrong on this!!!!

    Can anyone confirm?

    - Theo.


    No home server like Home Server
    Saturday, May 29, 2010 10:41 PM
    Moderator
  • I expect the migration path to be a manual one, as Theo has said. You will have two servers running in parallel and you will copy from one to the other. Or you will connect drives, one at a time, from your V1 server to your Vail server and copy directly to the DE volumes.

    Whatever you do, I expect you will do it by hand.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)

    I find these answers are totally unacceptable. Finally Microsoft proclaims WHS1 as a SoHo solution. Do you really expect from small business owners of copying all the files manually?
    Sunday, May 30, 2010 2:20 PM
  • I find these answers are totally unacceptable. Finally Microsoft proclaims WHS1 as a SoHo solution. Do you really expect from small business owners of copying all the files manually?
    DE changed significantly between v1 and Vail, so they are not compatible.  I think the best-case-scenario would be if MS created an add-in for Vail that did a copy-and-paste function automatically (which really is the same as a user opening a source share on the v1 server, pressing Ctrl+A on the keyboard, then Ctrl+C, then opening the destination share on Vail and pressing Ctrl+V).  And obviously someone in said small business office already knows how to copy and paste or there wouldn't be any data on the v1 server in the first place.
    Sunday, May 30, 2010 2:30 PM
    Moderator
  • Here's how I see this: you migrate data from V1 to V2 one time. If for some reason you have two V1 servers today, you do it twice: once from V1-1 to V2-1, once from V1-2 to V2-1(if you're consolidating) or V2-2 (if not). Developing a robust migration tool that's intelligent enough to actually do the trick for the vast majority of users is going to require a fairly large investment of time and money on Microsoft's part, for something that A) will only be used once by almost all users, and B) will just never be able to "get it right" for anywhere near everyone.

    So Microsoft has decided not to develop such a tool. they already have some tools that will let you do the job yourself: Synctoy, richcopy, and robocopy can all be automated to move large volumes from point a to point b. Xcopy or copy and paste are manual, but give you fine control over what goes where.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Sunday, May 30, 2010 3:36 PM
    Moderator
  • personally ken i find this totally unacceptable

     

    microsoft may need to spend alot of time and invest money into providing a tool but they must remember its us the customer who have put them in the position they are today

     

    you may have the time to do the manual transfer but a lot of us has spent the last three years building up a lot of files on our servers and are expected to remove each drive and spend days copying files over manually is crazy

    each new version of os that microsoft have introduced have had file transfer programs some great some useless but they need to address this BEFORE release to the masses

     

    just out of curiousity how many tb do you have to migrate over ?

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Sunday, May 30, 2010 8:21 PM
  • personally ken i find this totally unacceptable

    microsoft may need to spend alot of time and invest money into providing a tool but they must remember its us the customer who have put them in the position they are today

    you may have the time to do the manual transfer but a lot of us has spent the last three years building up a lot of files on our servers and are expected to remove each drive and spend days copying files over manually is crazy

    You don't have to spend days copying anything.  Only the computers do (and that's only the servers with multi TBs of data).  You can select everything from a share on v1, copy and paste to a share on Vail in literally 10 seconds.  You don't have to sit there and watch each file/count the number of files/move each file individually/etc.  Just copy, paste, and walk away.
    each new version of os that microsoft have introduced have had file transfer programs some great some useless but they need to address this BEFORE release to the masses  
    Again, even an MS created add-in would be nothing more than a fancy copy-and-paste function from share A on server A to share A on server B.

    just out of curiousity how many tb do you have to migrate over ?

     I currently have 3 TB of data (the vast majority of which is videos).

    Sunday, May 30, 2010 10:38 PM
    Moderator
  • Looking at this logically the product is aimed at the OEM market, there will be no upgrade path to do an upgrade of a WHS1 installation to WHS2.  Therefore the expectation is that people "upgrading" to WHS2 will be doing so by buying a new server.  Having said that I would think that most peoples expectation when replacing one computer with another is that they would need to move their data from one to the other.

     

    In terms of the speed I did migrate my active server over from WHS1 to Vail and can report on the performance I saw in doing that (yeah I know not a recommended thing to do but that's the cowboy in me ;)).  My server is a Atom machine that had a 640GB, 1TB and 1.5TB drive it in.  I replaced the 1TB with a pair of WD green 2TB drives putting the 1TB into my desktop machine.  The data from my 640GB drive was moved to my desktop and the vail install was done to the 640.  I then hooked up the other disks and added the two new 2TB drives to the storage pool.  I copied the data from the 1.5TB drive to the shares I created on the new vail install, this was done at ~50-60MB/s.  I then copied over the data from the 1TB drive and the left over data from the 640 from my desktop via gigabit ethernet and this copy went at between 40 and 50MB/s.

     

    Over all it was a fairly painless process.

     

    Personally I would not trust an automated migration tool to do what was needed, but maybe that's just me and my exposure to the older versions of files and settigns transfer wizard etc.  I would think a step by step instruction would be more useful, possibly supplemented with a robocopy script so that the end user can create their needed shares and then run through a robocopy script to nominate the source folders  and target folders and have it handle the copying of the data.

     

    Monday, May 31, 2010 2:56 AM
  • Having done the manual thing once on V1 using robocopy I then went looking for a better solution. Look for RichCopy on Technet. It is so superior in all ways. It is multi threaded and tunable for the number of concurrent operations during execution. If you are inserting the drives into your new machine then using something better than file copy is mandatory because you will be reading all of your files twice and only want to copy them once. Even if you use the network, Richcopy is still superior in my experience.

    I now use RichCopy as my data backup solution from Task Scheduler to make a 3rd copy of my data.

    Regardless of how MS handles the data migration gadget, it will take time to execute in linear relationship to how much data you have.

    (9TB and 4 more on the way.)

    Gerrit

    Thursday, June 3, 2010 3:23 AM