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Peer to Peer syncing.

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If I add a a new computer to my Mesh and there is another one sitting online right next door in the same network and is also in my Mesh, will the new PC retrieve my Mesh folders and files from the cloud or will it simply go next door and say "Hi, there. The cloud told me there is stuff I need to sync, do you have it?. Please let me copy it from you"

Thanks
- Edited by Lebohang Bucibo Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:07 PM Clarify the question by mentioning that both machines mentioned are part of my Mesh
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:38 PM

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Hi,

Two computers on the same LAN should be able to make a direct connection, but there are various reasons that they may not or cannot make a P2P connection. First of all, you need to make sure they're both running the same version of Live Mesh. Also, there are circumstances with our sync fetch algorithm where it may end up syncing via the cloud even when P2P is available. Finally, there are various inefficiencies that we are working to tune out of both the fetch algorithm and the P2P channel itself. We've made some big improvements in this regard, but we have seen some slow sync cases that we’re still working to investigate.

I hope that helps,

Ben.
- Marked as answer by Ben [Live Mesh] Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:20 PM
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:20 PM

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Okay lets explain:

It depends: Is the pc nexdoor in a Drom or appartment ? Then it could be you have the same connection and are connected to the same switch. If that is the case it goes P2P. If you however both pay sapperatly for your connection to the internet it will count as "upload" and "download" because it leaves the house.

Hope I explained it simple enough. (and that i'm write)

Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:03 PM
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The PC I mention are on the same LAN

Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:08 PM
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Hi,

Two computers on the same LAN should be able to make a direct connection, but there are various reasons that they may not or cannot make a P2P connection. First of all, you need to make sure they're both running the same version of Live Mesh. Also, there are circumstances with our sync fetch algorithm where it may end up syncing via the cloud even when P2P is available. Finally, there are various inefficiencies that we are working to tune out of both the fetch algorithm and the P2P channel itself. We've made some big improvements in this regard, but we have seen some slow sync cases that we’re still working to investigate.

I hope that helps,

Ben.
- Marked as answer by Ben [Live Mesh] Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:20 PM
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:20 PM
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Sounds like a failure to establish a direct P2P connection could be an issue, at least for me. Given an increase in ISP's implementing caps on downloads if I don't know what kind of connection is being made I could unwittingly max out or exceed my download cap. But even if I decided not to share such large directories and only shared something with a few hundred meg instead I'd imagine it could still be possible that Mesh would cause me to exceed my caps if a non-direct P2P sync happened. For instance, I once had a plug-in for Windows Media Server that downloaded automatically video's I selected, all legal, nothing like complete movies, just short-clips and stuff. What I didn't know was that behind the scenes the app had failed downloading a few of the video's and basically was 'stuck' downloading the same video's over and over. Eventually I got a call from Comcast Abuse department telling me my internet connection was being terminated because of the 70+GB worth of data I had downloaded over the past 60 days. I now monitor my bandwidth consuption for any like event, but your typical user wouldn't.

I guess my point is if we can't control when/how a P2P connection is established, say via the Sync Settings were we would tell Mesh to only sync if a direct connection is possible, then I'd probably have to re-think the use of Mesh. And/Or have at least a daily status report of download activity broken down by Internet vs Local network traffic could at least provide some info to end users about possible problems they may face. Just some thoughts.

Thanks,
Brian

Monday, July 28, 2008 4:49 PM
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On my home network, P2P sync doesn't work at all. Here are the specific steps I'm taking:
Create an empty folder with replicas in the cloud and on two machines.
On the cloud replica, disable sync. Of course, now the icon is a folder with a shortcut adornment.
Put a.txt in the replica on one of the machines. The other side has only a.txt.wlx even after several hours.
Put b.txt in the replica on the other machine. The first side has only b.txt.wlx even after several hours.

Environment:
OS: Vista Business and Vista Ultimate
Firewalls: Windows Firewall on one side, Norton Internet Security on the other
Last update of Mesh: Yesterday on both sides; rebooted both sides
Network: Sitting behind a Linksys wireless router; one fixed address on my subnet; the other DHCP

Things that do work:
Live Mesh Remote Desktop (slow - so must be going through cloud)
File sync when there's a cloud replica
Ping either machine from the other by IPv4 address
Ping either machine from the other by name
Browse to the other's shares via Windows Explorer (e.g., from Machine A, type \\machineb into address bar)
SyncToy between one machine and the other

Do I need to do something with my firewalls?
- Edited by SleeplessInDraper Sunday, August 3, 2008 1:11 PM More details
Sunday, August 3, 2008 12:53 PM
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Hi SleeplessInDraper,

We've been seeing a few reports of this issue (files set to sync P2P only not syncing at all). It would help us figure out what's going on if we could take a look at the Live Mesh logs from the machines that aren't syncing. Instructions for collecting logs and submitting a bug are in an Announcement at the top of the forums. Also, please feel free to post the Connect Feedback ID here after you've submitted your bug. This will make it easier for me to track internally, and allow other customers to view and validate your bug.

Thanks,

Ben.

Monday, August 4, 2008 7:21 PM
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OK, I submitted a bug, ID 360530.

Monday, August 4, 2008 8:08 PM
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I also would like to submit a bug and logs for this same issue but I just set up my Connect account and it says I have to sign up for the Live Mesh waiting list. When I sign up I get an error with ID 76d068dc-8697-475b-8162-e86d4842823b

My Live ID is telework@live.com Can someone please add Live Mesh to my Connect account and contact me so that I can participate?

Thanks,

Josh

Monday, August 25, 2008 2:05 AM
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Hi Josh,

I've forwarded your Live ID to another member of the team. You should have access to the Live Mesh Connect site soon so that you can submit your bug and logs. Once you're in Connect, and have submitted your bug, feel free to post the Connect Feedback ID here.

Thanks,

Ben.

Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:53 PM
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Can we please get an update on this issue where P2P sync does not work at all? I've updated to the latest version of Mesh recently and all I get are .wlx files syncing to the second system.

Better yet. How about an explanation of what the issue is and what is being done to address it and when.

Thanks,

Josh

Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:56 PM
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Same here. Still no improvement in behavior in spite of several successful updates of the client software.

Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:40 AM
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Same here, large folders just stop synchronizing at some point (might be after a few hundred KB or a few MB). All clients are
up-to-date ... this is getting a bit annoying, it would really help if Live Mesh would be more verbose (like FolderShare).

Kim

Thursday, September 18, 2008 5:06 AM
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Hi,

We have identified the cause of the problem that results in folders set to sync P2P only not syncing at all, and a fix is in the works. Unfortunately, we won't be ready to release it for a little while longer. We apologize for the delay: we know that this sync scenario is an important one for our customers, and we're working hard to get it out to everyone.

Thank you for your patience,

Ben.

Thursday, September 18, 2008 5:44 PM
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Ben - thanks for the update! That information is really helpful.

Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:26 PM
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That is great news.

Friday, September 19, 2008 1:25 AM
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nice=)

Friday, September 19, 2008 8:11 AM
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Ben, there's an additional symptom that I want to make sure isn't missed in the fix. If my Live Mesh client is failing to fetch files that are available only P2P, then it doesn't receive subsequently updated files even if the latter files are stored in the cloud.
Carry out steps above.
Have a friend put a file in a Live Mesh folder that I share, and let the cloud participate as a replica
File written in Step 2 never arrives.
Friday, September 19, 2008 10:09 PM
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SleeplessInDraper said:
Ben, there's an additional symptom that I want to make sure isn't missed in the fix. If my Live Mesh client is failing to fetch files that are available only P2P, then it doesn't receive subsequently updated files even if the latter files are stored in the cloud.
Carry out steps above.
Have a friend put a file in a Live Mesh folder that I share, and let the cloud participate as a replica
File written in Step 2 never arrives.

I see that this bug got fixed yesterday afternoon (10/3/08). That's great! When does the fix flow to an update for us end users?

Also, do we happen to know if the "additional symptom" I mentioned above got resolved? Summarizing that additional symptom: suppose my Live Mesh client needs to fetch file A from a peer *and* file B from the cloud, but the peer is unavailable, and the cloud learned of the A update before it learned of the B update. Does the lack of access to A block the update of B?
Saturday, October 4, 2008 12:28 PM
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Hi SleeplessInDraper,

The next update to Live Mesh should be available 'soon' (hopefully within a few weeks - I'd like to be more specific, but we don't want to make a promise and then not deliver). The additional issue you describe shouldn't occur after you've updated to the next version, once it's released, but if you do see that behavior please file a bug on it for us. Again, though, it will still be a little while yet before we have the next version of Live Mesh available for release.

Thanks for your patience. We're working hard to make Live Mesh better and better with each release.

Ben.

Monday, October 6, 2008 2:53 PM
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We received a Live Mesh update yesterday or the day before, and it didn't resolve the issue. Does this come as a surprise?

Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:47 AM
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SleeplessInDraper said:
We received a Live Mesh update yesterday or the day before, and it didn't resolve the issue. Does this come as a surprise?

Hi SleeplessInDraper,

I have to apologize for a little confusion here. The update I was talking about is our next major update to the Live Mesh software (which is still a week or so away, and should fix the P2P sync issue you're having). The update last week was a quick fix to the remote desktop component of the Live Mesh software that we deployed in response to a very specific problem - so it wasn't meant to resolve the P2P issues, or add any of the large number of changes we have planned for the major release (which is why the version number of the Live Mesh software did not change with last week's update).

Again, though, I do apologize for this confusion.

Ben.

Monday, October 13, 2008 3:55 PM
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Not a problem, Ben. Thanks for the clarification.

I do still have a question and an enhancement request, though.

The question: Does this update fix the "additional symptom" that I mentioned above? Repeating here:

Summarizing that additional symptom: suppose my Live Mesh client needs to fetch file A from a peer *and* file B from the cloud, but the peer is unavailable, and the cloud learned of the A update before it learned of the B update. Does the lack of access to A block the update of B?

The enhancement request: Can we make it possible to do Step 2 during Step 1 on Machine A?
Create a LiveMesh folder "foo" on Machine A.
On the web, tell "foo" not to sync with the cloud.
Instantiate ("realize") a replica of "foo" on Machine B.
Thanks,
Tom
Tuesday, October 14, 2008 3:56 AM
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Hi Tom,

To answer your question: No, the lack of access to A should not block the syncing of B. Live Mesh is designed to sync whatever files it can whenever it can. We did have an issue a few weeks ago with "tombstone" files that were blocking sync: if you want to read about that issue, it is described in our blog here, and the fix is detailed here.

As for the enhancement request: I'm happy to say that we'll be adding something quite close to this in our next major release - the ability to remove the cloud from the sync operations of a folder from within the client, rather than having to go to the web. More details about that will be available when we release the update, of course.

Thanks as always for helping us test Live Mesh!

Ben.

Tuesday, October 14, 2008 3:48 PM
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Thanks - great news on both counts!

Tuesday, October 14, 2008 4:00 PM
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Ben - everything works as expected as of today's update. Kudos to the team!

Friday, October 31, 2008 4:41 AM
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SleeplessInDraper said:
Ben - everything works as expected as of today's update. Kudos to the team!

Excellent! I'm very glad to hear that!

Thanks for the kudos (and for your patience),

Ben.

Friday, October 31, 2008 6:31 PM

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Peer to Peer syncing.

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