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the you'll still be able to get security updates lie!!!!!!! RRS feed

  • Question

  • Yet another 'untruth' from Microsoft

    To receive security updates today one receives

    "Software Upgrade for Some Windows Components Required"

    and has to agree to
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool (KB892130)
     734 KB , less than 1 minute
     The Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool enables you to verify that
     your copy of Microsoft Windows is genuine. The tool validates your Windows
     installation by checking Windows Product Identification and Product
     Activation status."
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Oh and the wga trojan phoned home at reboot



    Tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:08 PM

Answers

  •  Phil Liu MSFT wrote:
    WGA Validation is required before recieving any updates.

         I already did a WGA validation and fail to see why I need to do it again.

      PS.  Steve: You can switch to Automatic updates to get critical updates.

     

     

     

    Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:13 AM

All replies

  • You are still allowed to download high-priority security updates.

     

    In addition, the WGA Updating Utility (misnomered as "phone home" by various press) is simply for updating purposes.

     

    If you are not using a genuine copy of Windows, I would recommend purchasing a genuine WGA Kit directly from us in order to recieve the full benefits and security of genuine Windows.

     

    -phil liu

    Tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:12 PM
  • It's not about being genuine. I don't have a problem activating and registering my products.  It's about Microsoft calling me an untrustworthy person by 'phoning home' each time I boot. I activiated, I have registered numerous times  ( all successful ). When will Microsoft stop calling me a  LIAR?

    The only people that seem to not understand the meaning behind 'phone home'  ( it has been around for quite a while ) seem to be those employed by Microsoft or those seeking their favor.  You are phoning home, you have inflicted a spy trojan and thus you are calling me a LIAR.

    I have used Microsoft products ( I actually had ALTAIR BASIC on  paper tape ) all my life. It's unfortunate that XP will be the last Microsoft Operating system I will ever use
    Tuesday, June 13, 2006 7:20 PM
  • Gus19,

    Please explain how a software program checking for updates is tanatamount to calling you a liar.

    And which function is the one that is specifically making a liar out of you?

    Is it the Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool, which collects not personally identifiable information from the computer and the installed copy of XP and sends it to MS to validate the installation once upon its download?

    Or is it the Windows Genuine Advantage Notifications Tool, which on each user logon connects to MS to check for and download a more up-to-date settings file?

    Note that this action will be curtailed to once each two weeks in the next version of the tool, and will be discontinued altogether upon release of the final version.  So, paradoxically, the more you let the two WGA components "phone home," the less they will "phone home."

    Tuesday, June 13, 2006 7:39 PM
  • Dan

      I've activated my software. I go through the online registration process for each install. I've verified the validity with Microsoft each time I have requested a non-security download. Yet Microsoft still insists on installing a spyware trojan on my computer which is tantamount to calling me a liar each time I boot. Oh! Should I take consolation from the fact that they will only call me a liar every two weeks now?

    I've registered. I'm legal. I've purchased all my software. What is your problem understand that I don't wish to be bullied bt Microsoft just because they can?

     Also, I've  noticed that Microsoft people and their affiliates try to shift all discussion of this matter off the Usenet support forums where a larger base of experienced individuals  could take part in this debate. It's nice to want to live a a make believe world Dan

    Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:28 PM
  •  gus19 wrote:
    Dan

      I've activated my software. I go through the online registration process for each install. I've verified the validity with Microsoft each time I have requested a non-security download. Yet Microsoft still insists on installing a spyware trojan on my computer which is tantamount to calling me a liar each time I boot. Oh! Should I take consolation from the fact that they will only call me a liar every two weeks now?

    Why isn't Windows Validation calling you a liar but the Notification Tool is calling you a liar?  You seem to think that both are doing something underhanded or nefarious.  Still trying to get the "liar" angle.

    Looks like the Notifications Tool has been promoted from spyware to "spyware trojan."

    The Notifications Tool is not a Trojan.  Here is the definition of Trojan Horse from wikipedia: 

    In the context of computer software, a Trojan horse is a malicious program that is disguised as or embedded within legitimate software. The term is derived from the classical myth of the Trojan Horse. They may look useful or interesting (or at the very least harmless) to an unsuspecting user, but are actually harmful when executed.

    Funny, I thought reasonable definitions of spyware had the "ware" "spying" on you and then reporting your activity to someone.  The Notifications Tool checks for a more up-to-date settings file and if one is available, it gets downloaded.  So where is the "spying" and what activity is being reported?  Here is the definition of spyware from wikipedia:

    In simpler terms, spyware is a type of program that watches after what users do with their computer and then send this information to a hacker over the internet. Spyware can collect many different types of information about a user.


     gus19 wrote:

    I've registered. I'm legal. I've purchased all my software. What is your problem understand that I don't wish to be bullied bt Microsoft just because they can?

    I undertand the desire to not be bullied; I don't undertand why you think software checking for updates is "bullying?"


     gus19 wrote:

    Also, I've  noticed that Microsoft people and their affiliates try to shift all discussion of this matter off the Usenet support forums where a larger base of experienced individuals  could take part in this debate. It's nice to want to live a a make believe world Dan

    What debate? I'm trying to figure out why you think you are being called a liar.  Human perceptions are not open to debate, you either understand them or you don't.  In you case, I do not understand your perception of being called a liar.

    I'll have to take your word for that on living in a make-believe world.

    Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:21 PM
  •  gus19 wrote:
    It's not about being genuine. I don't have a problem activating and registering my products.  It's about Microsoft calling me an untrustworthy person by 'phoning home' each time I boot. I activiated, I have registered numerous times  ( all successful ). When will Microsoft stop calling me a  LIAR?

    The only people that seem to not understand the meaning behind 'phone home'  ( it has been around for quite a while ) seem to be those employed by Microsoft or those seeking their favor.  You are phoning home, you have inflicted a spy trojan and thus you are calling me a LIAR.

     

    Gus:

     

    I don't mean to offend you, but this is quite on the contrary. Phone home, in that sense, assumes that we take PII (personal identifiable information). We do not. This is a ONE way process, where the consumer computer pings our server to download an updated file *if needed*.

     

    The primary purpose of this updated file checking is a backup incase we do need to turn off WGA Notifications for one reason or another.

     

    Our entire team is open to suggestions on how to (easily) remotely turn off the software if something goes wrong. Please feel free to submit them.

    Thanks for your feedback,

    -phil liu

    Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:26 PM
  • Dan
     
       If you purchase anything in a store are you usually required to validate your purchase every two weeks? If a store employee kept knocking at your door every two weeks demanding that you show proof of purchase wouldn't you eventually take  the hint that the employee was calling you a liar?

     It's a very simple concept. I purchased the right to use this software. I've re-validated online many times.  I shouldn't have some trojan on my computer that forcibly checks every two weeks for some insane reason of Microsoft's

    You seem to be enamoured with this process. Care to explain why? Do you normally distrust all those who purchase services from you? 

    The real fairy tale here is Microsoft's spin on Trustworthy computing. I reckon they've altered the definitions of 'private' and 'secure' - also 'everyone'  obviously means Microsoft and their shareholders. 

    www.microsoft.com/mscorp/twc/
    Trustworthy Computing is a long-term, collaborative effort to provide more secure, private, and reliable computing experiences for everyone.

    Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:38 PM
  • The primary purpose of this updated file checking is a backup incase we do need to turn off WGA Notifications for one reason or another.

    Huh? I'm sorry Phil I really don't understand that concept. You are file checking in case you have to turn off notifications? I thought you check to compare against a database of questionable keys.

    As to suggestions you already know what I will say.  Take this  with whatever grain of salt you wish but the prime reason many people and organizations ( that I have been familiar with ) have not converted from Windows 2000  is not cost.  It is the last  operating system from Microsoft that people have trusted.   Argue how you will when people take up the refrain of 'product deactivation' but it is a real fear. Hopefully one day you will remove those blinders
    Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:49 PM
  • How do I get to the high-priority security updates?  It keeps telling me "Software Upgrade for Some Windows Components Required", for either Express or Custom updates before I can choose the security updates.

     

    Tuesday, June 13, 2006 11:41 PM
  •  gus19 wrote:
    The primary purpose of this updated file checking is a backup incase we do need to turn off WGA Notifications for one reason or another.

    Huh? I'm sorry Phil I really don't understand that concept. You are file checking in case you have to turn off notifications? I thought you check to compare against a database of questionable keys.

    It checks for updated validation files. We receive NOTHING from the client side during this update. Only during validation does it do this. (By validation, I mean using Windows Updates, etc).

     gus19 wrote:

    As to suggestions you already know what I will say.  Take this  with whatever grain of salt you wish but the prime reason many people and organizations ( that I have been familiar with ) have not converted from Windows 2000  is not cost.  It is the last  operating system from Microsoft that people have trusted.   Argue how you will when people take up the refrain of 'product deactivation' but it is a real fear. Hopefully one day you will remove those blinders

     

    We would like suggestions regarding this. As said before, we're looking for open suggestions as to how to remotely update the files if needed.

     

    -phil liu

    Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:19 AM
  • WGA Validation is required before recieving any updates.
    Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:19 AM
  •  Phil Liu MSFT wrote:
    WGA Validation is required before recieving any updates.

         I already did a WGA validation and fail to see why I need to do it again.

      PS.  Steve: You can switch to Automatic updates to get critical updates.

     

     

     

    Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:13 AM
  • Sorry phil, Gus has a valid point.

    What Microsoft is doing is tantamount to, at least in principle, what our government here in the states is now trying to get away with.

    "If you're not doing anything wrong, why do you care if we tap your phones?" Or track your internet usage, or place video cameras in your house or whatever else you're doing legally, but someone wants to keep a close eye on you to make sure you stay legal. This is guilty until proven innocent, really.

    BUT Microsoft DOES have the right to do this, being a corporation and NOT a government. All we can do as a customer is refuse to buy and or use their products. Unfortunately this will cause HUGE headaches worldwide.

    More proof that MS has gotten too big for its britches. I've needed a kick in the hiney to drop MS, and this looks like the kicker. I've already converted to Open Office... look out Linux, here I come.

    I DO want a straight answer on if my windows fails the test, if it WILL become unuseable if not not, then sometime in the near future.

    Thursday, July 6, 2006 2:34 AM
  • Its not my intention to start some flame-fest, but this is the problem as I see it.

    I think the issue with WGA for a lot of people is lack of trust.  Microsoft knows what the WGA related code does when it checks in with Microsoft and they are voicing that regularly in this forum.  We as customers are told that it doing nothing more than checking for updated versions, to see if it should be turned off or whatever.  The problem, as I see it, is that people don't believe what Microsoft is saying.  I'm sorry if that is bluntly put.  They are afraid and they are unsure of Microsoft's true intentions.  The SCO lawsuits against customers for not buying UNIX/LINUX licenses (greatly simplified on my part) as well as magazine articles telling people to be afraid probably doesn't help any either.

    Are people actually being tracked in a big database in Redmond, WA?  I don't know.  I doubt it, but I can see how it could be done.  I read in the papers how people are tracked on the internet by tracing back their IP address through the ISP.  Why couldn't Microsoft do the same thing to build a list of illegal users when the client PC "checks in" with Microsoft?

    IMO, it is in Microsoft's best interest to win back the customer's trust. 

    Thursday, July 6, 2006 8:01 PM