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What for do we have MS newsgroups _and_ MS forums _and_ MS connect ?! RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • Hi All

    I'm wondering what is the reason there are both MS newsgroups (microsoft.public.*) and MS forums (social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums)??
    That doesn't make any sense. It only makes finding information harder.
    And why do we need MS Connect? There should be simply an option to check any post in this forum as a bug report or suggestion and that's all.

    One channel for information makes it easier to share and find solutions.

    Regards
    Piotr Dobrogost
    • Edited by Piotr Dobrogost Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:49 PM typo
    • Moved by nobugz Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:30 PM Not a C++ question [loc] (Moved from Visual C++ General to Suggestions and Feedback for the Forums)
    Friday, November 14, 2008 5:11 PM

All replies

  • The Visual C++ team is not running this website, or the Microsoft connect site, or any newsgroup.

    For suggestions to this web site, post in the Suggestions and Feedback for the Forum.
    MSMVP VC++
    Friday, November 14, 2008 6:35 PM
  • It's called progress, many prefer web-based forums over the old newsgroups.  That doesn't, as yet, make the newsgroups completely obsolete.  The Connect site is purely for feedback, allowing you to ask for features and report bugs to the DevDiv group at Microsoft.  You can't ask questions.
    Hans Passant.
    Friday, November 14, 2008 7:06 PM
  • Sheng Jiang 蒋晟 said:

    The Visual C++ team is not running this website, or the Microsoft connect site, or any newsgroup.

    For suggestions to this web site, post in the Suggestions and Feedback for the Forum.


    MSMVP VC++

    Sheng

    So what?
    I asked general question and whoever from MS who's running _this_ forum should know the answer.

    Regards
    Piotr Dobrogost

    Friday, November 14, 2008 8:53 PM
  • nobugz said:

    It's called progress, many prefer web-based forums over the old newsgroups.  That doesn't, as yet, make the newsgroups completely obsolete.  The Connect site is purely for feedback, allowing you to ask for features and report bugs to the DevDiv group at Microsoft.  You can't ask questions.


    Hans Passant.


    Thanks for your post but you missed the point.
    Don't you see a difference between making newsgroups available through web interface (there are many newsgroups with such) and making _new_ channel for communication in spite of existing one?
    Having many interfaces is A Good Thing whereas having many channels is A Bad Thing.

    Regards
    Piotr Dobrogost
    Friday, November 14, 2008 8:59 PM
  • What make you think a MSDN forum team member would monitor a Visual C++ forum? Visual C++ is off-topic to them, and your post is off-topic to this forum. I don't monitor the forum feedback forum because I don't want to know what everybody else want to add to the MSDN forums. I think a MSDN forum team member does not want to monitor MFC or ATL questions either.

    The first step to have an effective responsive is to find the right forum. Take a look at a FAQ or a sticky thread and verify your question is on-topic. Don't shotgun-blast all the available help channels at once.


    MSMVP VC++
    Friday, November 14, 2008 9:36 PM
  • Sheng Jiang 蒋晟 said:

    What make you think a MSDN forum team member would monitor a Visual C++ forum? Visual C++ is off-topic to them, and your post is off-topic to this forum. I don't monitor the forum feedback forum because I don't want to know what everybody else want to add to the MSDN forums. I think a MSDN forum team member does not want to monitor MFC or ATL questions either.

    The first step to have an effective responsive is to find the right forum. Take a look at a FAQ or a sticky thread and verify your question is on-topic. Don't shotgun-blast all the available help channels at once.


    MSMVP VC++


    Sheng

    We don't understand each other. I'll try once more. There are newsgroups on VC topics on MS newsgroups (microsoft.public.vc.ide_general, microsoft.public.vc.language etc.) and there are MSDN forums on the same topics. Do we need MS channels for communication being duplicated? No, we don't. This is harmfull for community, for us, users. Why should anybody need to search answer on VC language question in two different places of the same kind and run by one company?! This makes finding answers and sharing ideas harder than it could be.

    Regards
    Piotr Dobrogost
    Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:59 PM
  • Hmya, so the newsgroups should be eliminated.  How do you propose to do that?  Nobody controls newsgroups.  Or would it be easier for Microsoft to shut down their MSDN forum sites?  Who's going to tell the guys from Stackoverflow.com?  Why don't you start there, it will be easier to convince 4 guys their site is a threat to civilization as we know it than 80,000 MSFT employees and a million forum users.  Good luck with that.

    Oh, btw, forums are popular because completely off-topic threads can be moved or deleted.  Like this one.  Moved.

    Hans Passant.
    Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:27 PM
  • Your whole attitude leads a lot to be desired. No doubt if I try to answer you, you will personally attack me for not getting it just as you did the other guys. Trying anyway.

    The whole point is that - as has been said already in this thread - Microsoft do not control the Usenet newsgroups, nobody does.

    You mention a web interface to the newsgroups. All this is is a front-end that Microsoft provide to the "microsoft" newsgroups, they don't however control the infrastructure of the newsgroups.

    The forums on the other hand *are* controlled by Microsoft. They not only control the front-end to the forums but also the infrastructure. This means that they can make changes to both parts and reconcile those changes.

    This is much superior to the situation with newsgroups.

    If you like with the newsgroups you have a screen-scraper program getting it's data from an ancient mainframe system; with the forums you have a modern system designed for being run with our present hardware and software. Does that help you understand the differences?



    Saturday, November 15, 2008 3:55 PM
  • Mike Walsh MVP said:

    Your whole attitude leads a lot to be desired. No doubt if I try to answer you, you will personally attack me for not getting it just as you did the other guys. Trying anyway.


    The whole point is that - as has been said already in this thread - Microsoft do not control the Usenet newsgroups, nobody does.

    You mention a web interface to the newsgroups. All this is is a front-end that Microsoft provide to the "microsoft" newsgroups, they don't however control the infrastructure of the newsgroups.

    The forums on the other hand *are* controlled by Microsoft. They not only control the front-end to the forums but also the infrastructure. This means that they can make changes to both parts and reconcile those changes.

    This is much superior to the situation with newsgroups.

    If you like with the newsgroups you have a screen-scraper program getting it's data from an ancient mainframe system; with the forums you have a modern system designed for being run with our present hardware and software. Does that help you understand the differences?




    Mike

    Thanks for your replay. I very much appreciate time you spent writing it.
    I don't understand why you think I attacked anybody in this thread. I didn't. We just have normal conversation.

    I understand your arguments for forums and against newsgroups. I don't think and didn't write newsgroups are better.
    I'm only concerned with many different channels of sharing ideas which makes sharing difficult.
    Does someone from MS regularly inform users of microsoft.* newsgroups that there are other channels and these channels are more important for MS and better supported than newsgroups? I don't think so. I don't want that much, do I?

    Regards
    Piotr Dobrogost



    Monday, November 17, 2008 12:25 AM
  • Piotr:

    While this duplication in newsgroups/forums is not ideal, it is not the end of the world. You just need to find which works best for you. In the case of Visual C++ native coding, I think you will find that the amount of expert help available in the vc.language and vc.mfc newsgroups is greater than that available in the forums. The reasons are that these groups are very long-established, and many responders find the newsgroup format far preferable to the forum one.

    As a matter of fact, the amount of direct Microsoft technical involvement in either the newsgroups or forums is pretty negligible (at least in the Visual C++ area). A far more serious issue, IMHO, is that most topical information from Microsoft is appearing in the form of blogs, which are a poor reference source compared to either newsgroups or forums.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Monday, November 17, 2008 2:26 PM