locked
This qrappy, buggy, unreliable forum RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • I am really, really sick to death of having to use this piece of shyte excuse for a forum. All day today I've had posts fail to post with "unexpected error," or with no error at all (see images below), or had the editor present me with no Submit or other buttons in the editor window, or gotten "Connection was reset..." errors when trying to return to the forum, or Server Error 503 when trying to access it at all, or...

    Look, Microsoft, you gave it your best shot, and it just ain't working. Even when the forum isn't going through the apoplexy of today's ridiculously inept performance, it sucks.

    For some reason, the forum gods have decided recently that everything must go into paragraph tags. No, dammit! If I want double-spacing between text blocks, I'll add them with the Enter key! To sign my posts I have to hit Shift-Enter to get a single line break instead of create a new bloody paragraph after "cheers." If I'm trying to enter a short illustrative code block I have to do the same thing. Letme decide whether a text block is a paragraph. We went through this one time before on the forum and the change was reversed after enough bitching. How about we just switch it back right now, eh?

    Another thing, in Firefox the only way to get a live hyperlink is to highlight the existing link and then use the editor's link tool to make it clickable. Fine. Pain in the ____, but OK. However, the editor then puts an extraneous, unwanted space following the link. It sometimes does it with ordinary pasted text, as well, or when you highlight and format text with the format icons. What the hel is up with that?

    Listen, I know you guys have this thing about "eat your own dog food," but please, we're the ones getting the indigestion! Give it up, already, and deploy a stable, functional forum for us, even if it has to come from the open source community and isn't built with Microsoft tools. I'm not a Microsoft slammer; I'm an MCP and I've made a good living over time with MS tools, and still prefer them in many cases over others. But, believe me, this forum isnot putting your best face forward, and is providing more in the way of "negative evangelism" than otherwise.

    Here is what I saw most of the day when trying to access the forum:


    =====
    And I saw this almost every time I tried to submit a post:

    =====
    Now, I've been programming for a while, long enough to go back to the days of "On Error..." unstructured exception handling. It could be a little difficult sometimes getting meaningful error messages about the particular process and the exact nature of the error. However, that was then and this is now, and we have sophisticated structured exception handling, and the best you can come up with is "Unexpected Error"?! The only thing sillier would be a message like "Expected Error."

    Well, almost the only thing. I think that perhaps this next one takes that award...

    =====

    Now, that, my friends, truly takes the cake for asininity. Anybody got a clue what that one is supposed to tell us? Yeah, me neither.

    This is ridiculous. It's been bad for a long time, and just when you think it couldn't possibly get any worse, well, surprise! You were wrong.

    Please, please, give us a forum that works! You've got a loyal cadre of regulars who come here to help others, and hordes of new and untrained users who come here for help. We don't deserve bottom shelf here. Whatever it takes, please ditch this abortion and replace it with something we can use and enjoy. Thank you. [stepping down off soap box... ]

    cheers,
    scott

     

     


    C'mon, folks. This isn't rocket science, nor neurosurgery. It's "Expression" (singular) "Web" (singular), inthat order, followed by a version numeral if you wish to be specific. It is often abbreviated "EW." It isnot "Web Expression," "Expressions Web," "Web Expressions," or plain "Expression" or "Expressions." Not using the correct name indicates either ignorance or laziness. Most folks would rather avoid the appearance of either.
    • Moved by Lori Dirks Thursday, April 15, 2010 6:30 PM Off topic; Forum suggestions (From:Expression Web and SuperPreview)
    Thursday, April 15, 2010 2:07 AM

All replies

  • "I am really, really sick to death of having to use this piece of shyte excuse for a forum. All day today I've had posts fail to post with "unexpected error," or with no error at all "

    Several days, actually.  It's been worse than usual - and that's hard to achieve.

    Thursday, April 15, 2010 3:10 AM
  • "What are you doing to post pics, are you hosting them?"

    Heh... Are you kidding? Know how many hits this forum gets? No way. I'm a firm believer in the ages-old maxim (well, maybe "years-old"): "Use someoneelse's bandwidth." There are dozens of free image-hosting sites available. Take yer pick...

    cheers,
    scott


    C'mon, folks. This isn't rocket science, nor neurosurgery. It's "Expression" (singular) "Web" (singular), inthat order, followed by a version numeral if you wish to be specific. It is often abbreviated "EW." It isnot "Web Expression," "Expressions Web," "Web Expressions," or plain "Expression" or "Expressions." Not using the correct name indicates either ignorance or laziness. Most folks would rather avoid the appearance of either.
    Thursday, April 15, 2010 3:43 AM
  • Good dissertation on the state-of-the-message-board Scott. You and Kubota articulate well.

     

     

    Thursday, April 15, 2010 3:55 AM
  • Yes me from South Africa, yesterday tried to get into the Forum, received Error code 500 all the time!

    Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:13 AM
  • Hehehe...First time ever I agree with "paladyn" on something and then only concerning line breaks and paragraphs   ;-)

    Where are "Veign" and "KathyW2" ? I would love to endorse them also  ;-)

    Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:44 AM
  • Kathy has already posted in this thread. I can't think of a single person who likes this forum application. FWIW, it wasn't just this board that was having "issues" yesterday. TechNET (already mentioned) and MSDN forums had issues as well.

    Many folks used whatever contacts they had to reach out and ask peple they knew at Microsoft what in hayde was going on in both public venueshttp://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/reportabug/thread/3e06bdc7-d343-46be-817d-0858b0da175b and by email or support contacts.

    Responses went along the lines of:

    "We had some failure on the back end in the early am and it took longer than we would have liked to set things right again. Things should up and working just in time for our 4pm PST deployement, during which time, things may be a little skaky."

    Brent Serbus MSFT, Administrato

    Community Forums Program Manager

    IMHO, MS needs to do something serious about this forum application like maybe buy Community Server or some other form application that actually works.

    MS wants people to post in the reportabug forum (where that quote came from) when we have issues that the "triage" team needs to address. However, I don't really want to go chasing all around to post complaints so I'm adding my two cents in here.


    MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com
    Thursday, April 15, 2010 2:15 PM
  • Add to the errors, unexpected logouts, lost posts because unexpected errors:

    - It won't auto-link URLs pasted into posts.  I have to actually highlight a URL, choose Anchor, re-paste the URL, hit update.  Come on. One regular expression solves it.

    - Back to P tags every time I press the enter key.  Can't easily get something to line up right under something

    - No Private Message system.  Really?  A modern day forum doesn't support Private Messages

    Plus many, many more things are missing that EVERY forum I visit/installed has...

     

    Ending on this: Don't tell me to post in the suggestion forum as that's just a black hole....

     

    (PERFECT: Unexpected Error when trying to post this post.  Off to copy the text, reload the page, relogin, find the post, reply, paste)


    --
    Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP
    On Facebook |On Twitter | Resource Center | Veign's Blog | Web Development Help

    Get a Complete Website Analysis by Veign
    Thursday, April 15, 2010 2:16 PM
  • No need for the language, Scott. If I was running the board I would have deleted your post. Civility, please.

    I agree with the spirit of your post. This forum system is pretty bad compared to just about any other forum in which I participate. I'm fed up with the "unexpected" errors (aren't all errors unexpected?), with having to edit the HTML to get quotes to look decent, with the absence of languages (CSS, PHP) from the insert code tool, and with the inability to switch from threaded to chronological view on a thread-by-thread basis (which is the reason I quote so much).

    I do see some good aspects to the system, in particular the integration opportunity Microsoft has with its other sites. The fact that my profile in this forum can show my connections to other forums is a plus in my mind. Some parts of the UI are good.

    But the key is that the bugs and problems are wasting our time. That must be especially galling to the contributors here who have worked so dilligently to provide peer support, especially those 5-star generals in our midst. I'm certainly not in that league but I am certainly getting frustrated with the amount of my time that the forum is wasting.

    So except for the expletives, I'm in your camp.


    Will
    Baltimore, MD USA - www.fastie.com
    Thursday, April 15, 2010 2:43 PM
  • I want to second what the OP said. It is sickening! I am wondering how MSFT people who are supposed to be highly paid professionals can keep the state of this forum so low? Besides all such issues have been raised for many years and promised to be resolved. I can dig into my old posts here and prove.

    A couple of days ago I could post almost nothing. I've had it so many times before I did not even get scared although in the back of my mind a paranoid thought lurked. I just renewed my MSDN subscription because it was about to expire (I know, I know anyone can post here subscriber or not but still...), and I had trouble confirming registration. Insane asylum!

    Then things improved out of the blue next morning but even today I had this "Unexpected Error" dialog box once. Why?

    Also I noticed I cannot post names of certain Sql System Stored Procedures. I had to spell them like people do their email addresses to avoid harvesting! I discussed it with one MSFT Moderator and he said that it worked at his end but so what? When I was getting this "Unexpected Error" thing I noticed that many people kept posting. Are they privileged or what?

    Duplicate posts galore! Why do you waste MS property? What would it take for you, idiots to fix all this?

    Also quite often on attempt to post I am redirected to MSFT page with a simple message in all languages saying that the page I want to have is inacdcessible.

    When editing, about every third time the editor opens in a weird html window which is impossible to edit for the most part unless you read thru this forest. This has been discussed here hundreds of times and promised, sworn to be fixed. The mountain is still here, unsurmountable.

    A couple of years ago they "improved" the forums. There was a sandbox to play, etc. One of the improvements was that every time you made a correction, a line appeared under your post damming you:Corrected by AlexBB and the time stamp. Also you had to give a "reason for the correction." I asked them who the idiot was who invented that? I am tempted to use a stronger word but abstain. They finally removed that lunacy but it still remains in some forums untouched! Isn't it crazy? You don't have to give a reason anymore but the damming line appears.

    I have a habit of correcting my misspellings any time, even after many years, if I see them. Sometimes old posts come up and I make a correction. Some simple posts accumulated a dozen lines this way.

    I always give them an example to follow. It is Hardware Forums. I can post a link.Here we go. It is bug free! Also very esthetically pleasing except of course commercials are an annoyance.

    I don't know what else I can say. It is really sickening!

     


    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Friday, April 16, 2010 2:51 AM
  • Civility? How about I throw a word at you? That word would be "reliability". Oh, here's another one - "support".

    I'm right there with the OP, and believe me when I say that my expletives are a lot stronger.  It's really too bad every forum on the planet is so overly moderated. I'm sure that Microsoft would get an ear full.  Their lack of support or concern for their developer community is abysmal.

     

     

    Friday, April 16, 2010 12:23 PM
  • Their lack of support or concern for their developer community is abysmal.

    I actuaklly strongly disagree on this point. They provide an excellent support. For years I've been asking questions and I don't recall a single time when the issues were not resolved.


    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Friday, April 16, 2010 12:27 PM
  • It's really too bad every forum on the planet is so overly moderated. I'm sure that Microsoft would get an ear full.

    One can give an earful without resorting to expletives.


    Will
    Baltimore, MD USA - www.fastie.com
    Friday, April 16, 2010 1:05 PM
  • Lets now add these two items to the list:

    - Moving posts without a stub left behind.  No way to know it was moved or where it was moved

    - Not allowing OT discussions in the forum when there is no way to PM people you 'hang out' with in the forums for hours a day.  Frustrating that you can't say anything OT without the post being killed or moved.


    --
    Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP
    On Facebook |On Twitter | Resource Center | Veign's Blog | Web Development Help

    Get a Complete Website Analysis by Veign
    Friday, April 16, 2010 1:36 PM
  • This is an example of a thread with numerous duplicate posts. It complicates reading it to a great extent. There are multiple threads like that one all over the forums. It must be a simple bug to remove but they could not catch it for years. Totally pathetic!
    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:17 PM
  • I am wondering if anybody reads out posts. Just now I tried to connect to a Visual Studi o forum and got an error: You are not authorized to do this operation. That was it. A blank page.
    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Wednesday, April 21, 2010 1:31 AM
  • I have to agree with Paladyn, and I can completely understand the expletives because after all, when you are going to forum for help you want someone to throw you a life jacket or something to help.  Microsoft throws you a pair of concrete shoes and an anchor - well, when they throw anything that is...

    But I think Paladyn also fell short a bit...  Yes, technically the forum is a mess and in our office has just been voted worse than the SAP support site - which is downright horrible - but Paladyn missed one other crucial element that I have run into a number times.  What is it?

    Apparently no one at Microsoft understands their own products.  Rarely has there a been a company so in love with complexity.  If Microsoft made pencils, they would have jet engines, wheels, and CD players (that of course would not work), and of course, as a pencil it would be totally useless.  Why this company thinks hiring the "best and brightest" is going to get them anywhere is beyond me - give me someone with just good old common sense who knows that simplicity IS elegance.  At Microsoft, well, as they have said about this company for decades - How many Microsofties does it take to change a lightbulb?  1 Million...  Thats 1 to hold the lightbuld, and 999,999 to spin the Earth.

    To wit, I have been seeking help with VSTO and Interop and I am convinced there is probably ONE guy in all the world who actually understands this mess.  My questions dont get answered mainly because no one knows the answers (while I merrily debug and analyze FOR Microsoft!!!), and when I do get an answer its basically a 'brush-off' so that these folks dont have to admit they dont have the slightest clue how it all works.

    I was told a couple weeks ago that Interop and VSTO were "afterthoughts" for MS because all they wanted to do what capture the OpenXML standard - which is a joke to begin with - and then MS said "ooops!" we'd better make some software to support our never-ending drive to control the digital world.  Well, they made the software allright, but its lousy, documented WORSE than the surface of Pluto, and I have already watched two MS trainers confuse themselves trying to work with it!!!

    30 years ago, when I got into this business, I was a huge MS supporter.  Through the years I would always stand up for MS when people trashed the company.  But in the last decade MS has completely gone off the rails.  They produce garbage, they cant document for spit, and they have ridden the Service Pack train for so long I dont buy anything from them until its at least a year old.

    There is only one bright light...  I will retire some time soon and when I do, I will have a bonfire in my backyard and burn up everything with the MS name on it.  Then I am going to buy an Apple machine, and live the rest of my life quietly computing as it should have been decades ago.

    So Paladyn, yeah, and amen to your words - you should have gone further!  But take some peace in the fact that Microsoft cannot do ANYTHING without over-complicating it and then of course, never fail, every time, blowing something up.  Which in the end, makes MS exactly like another organization in today's world.  Terrorists!!!

    Ballmer should just move the corporate office to Tora Bora in Afghanistan and be done with it.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Wednesday, April 21, 2010 2:42 PM
  • A brilliant essay by Beebo. A real literaly talent. Instead of setting a bonfire, start writing novels. You will make lots of money. I like the whole thing except the last paragraph. It poisoned the whole picture.

    Also you are wrong technically on the account of generalizing the forum problem to the whole MS software business. Windows 7 OS is a gem. MS's Windows Firewall is near perfect. I've never had any problems with viruses. I don't have any anti-viral software except MS Security Suit.

    Have you tried MS Windows Media Center? It is such an advanced API relative to the old Windows Media Player. There is at least one bug I noticed but it is when you work with two monitors and maximize it. It is a known problem and I am sure they will fix it.

    Sql Server is another gem. I like it so do many other folks. VS2010 is a new Dev Tool and it is great. They have fixed many problems in the old VS2008. I tried it in beta 2 and it crashed after two days. All that has been fixed promptly.

    Bing is gaining on Google search engine steadily, taking away their share of the marke.

    Windows Server is another great piece of softwaer. What do you have agains it?

    MS stock shares are on the rise and it is testimony to their success.

    Thus, you an see how wrong you are. Apologize:)


    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:37 PM
  • Thanks...  But I have already written 3 novels, 1 published - yeah, for real.

    As for your comments - yes, Win 7 is nice - but if you think about it, its what Vista was supposed to be and if you, like me, suffered through years of Vista, you wouldnt think of Win 7 as anything other than what it is - stripped down Vista because once again, MS produced crud and the marketplace just would not accept it.  So what do you do?  Strip it down and rename it.  A very old, very well-used MS ploy.

    MS Window's Firewall - Oh, you mean the follow-on to Windows Defender?  Once again, only took MS about what, five, ten years to get that right.

    SQL Server, no argument - its the only fairly decent thing MS makes.

    Oh, and VS2010?  Well, I have worked in EVERY version of VS, and geez - why do we need a 2010 version when they never got 2005 or 2008 complete and right.  Why?  Because they like our money and have trained us to accept partially done, very buggy swill.  And what happens when you complain or ask for help - they tell you to wait for the next version.

    MS stock is rising?  Big deal, so is Goldman Sachs and they ripped everyone off.  You must be fairly naive to think that a high stock price means "good business".  Ever hear of Enron, WorldCom, Quest, and many others who had high stock prices while they ripped the public and investors off? 

    You sound like a nice guy, but clearly you dont think with your brain much - imagine MS as a restaurant - you order something, it takes years to get it to your table and when you get it, its undercooked and not even the dish you ordered.  When you complain, a guy like you orders again - me?  I leave.

    Now, tell me again how wrong I am?  I suggest you remember the words of Vladimir Lenin who said;

    "If you want the people to crave white bread, serve them nothing but white bread!"

    You are accepting garbage and praising it because you have lost your sense to know the difference.  I have been around too long in this business to make that mistake.  Microsoft was once a great company, but sorry, in the last decade, MS seeks only to control the market, over-complicate things all they can, and they love when dolts drink their Kool-aid - it keeps them in the business of low quality, poorly done software.  Never presume that because you dont know the difference, that therefore there is none.

     

    Wednesday, April 21, 2010 6:38 PM
  • Alex, denny's stock is up 72% ytd and 93% yy.   (NASDAQ:DENN).   now, there's a testimonial.  yum.

    but i think their website still needs some work.

    Wednesday, April 21, 2010 7:16 PM
  • Alex, denny's stock is up 72% ytd and 93% yy.   (NASDAQ:DENN).   now, there's a testimonial.  yum.

    but i think their website still needs some work.


    Beef stew is much easier to make. I agree with the latest statement though.
    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Wednesday, April 21, 2010 7:37 PM
  •  But I have already written 3 novels, 1 published - yeah, for real.

    You see, I am a talent spotter:) I can always tell if a poster has a way with language.

    The difference between you and I is that for you the glass is half empty, for me it is three quarters full. No offense, have you ever taken antidepressant medications? :)

     


    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Wednesday, April 21, 2010 7:45 PM
  • Beebo, you are a professional, you have written applications. Are all of them perfect? Tell us the truth? Remember somebody said long time ago: You who are without sin, throw the first stone.
    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Wednesday, April 21, 2010 7:53 PM
  • You see I've already left an "incriminating" evidence: two corrections in one of my previous posts. They removed this lunacy from many forums but not this one. I suspect the guy who implemented this was laid off two eyars ago when the markets dropped and the secret of this idiocy is lost

    What do they do with it? Collect sttistics? And then what? At the end of the year Beebo will be found to have a perfect score-no corrections whatsoever or he did not really care. And another guy with hundreds of corrections, what are they going to do with him? Expell from the forums?

    I want to see the guy who implemented this. I will throw the first stone..                                                        


    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:54 PM
  • And here is wonderful McAfee. I don't understand why people buy anything but MS software.
    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Wednesday, April 21, 2010 10:54 PM
  •  No offense, have you ever taken antidepressant medications?

    alex's vote as helpful button got removed.
    Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:54 PM
  •  No offense, have you ever taken antidepressant medications?

    alex's vote as helpful button got removed.

    Very obscure.
    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:33 PM
  • first a span of 5 contiguous posts.  now a double-post.  are you obscuring this thread on purpose?
    Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:44 PM
  • first a span of 5 contiguous posts.  now a double-post.  are you obscuring this thread on purpose?

    I never double post. That was when I tried to post it first and got "Unexpected Error." So I posted second time but somehow the first post came out. Don't blame me. Blame this forum.
    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Friday, April 23, 2010 12:55 PM
  • i apologize.  i couldn't help teasing your frothing pro-ms dissertation which was complete with a stock market testimonial.  don't you realize that is the most exploitive, unethical, fickle thing on this earth?

    for your punishment, you've received 4 forum bugs in this thread.  (1) missing helpful button.  (2) double-post.  (3)  http500 error box.  (4) my replies.

    Friday, April 23, 2010 7:03 PM
  • i apologize.  i couldn't help teasing your frothing pro-ms dissertation which was complete with a stock market testimonial.  don't you realize that is the most exploitive, unethical, fickle thing on this earth?

    for your punishment, you've received 4 forum bugs in this thread.  (1) missing helpful button.  (2) double-post.  (3)  http500 error box.  (4) my replies.


    There was no need for apology. People shoot from the hip around here:) Just say what is on your mind. It is catharsis.
    AlexB - Win_7 Pro64, SqlSer64 WinSer64
    Friday, April 23, 2010 8:49 PM