locked
I hope (for Morro's sake) that not the same MVPs are involved RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • Hi,

    I have been an early tester of OneCare and there some things that I want to get off my chest !

    OneCare was supposed to be THE program for THE TARGET GROUP = the home user and I really believed in it.

    Until :

    An MVP decided however that :

    1. Internal network features had to be added :
    The TARGET GROUP did not understand, but the MVP (and a couple of followers?) was happy when he got it in.

    2. Backups to a second or third internal HDD should not be allowed for all kinds of ridiculous reasons by the same MVP.
    It is however a very common situation amongst home users to have a second/third internal HDD as data and/or system-image storage.
    MS followed the MVP again - Home users to be very unhappy.

    And that is how OneCare was releases :
    - Not for the professional user because dedicated to home users with some absolutely useless features
    - Not for the home users because of the questionable network feature and the lack of the backup feature possibilities.

    And that is also why (imho) OneCare sunk :
    - Too much of this
    - Too few of something else
    In other words MUCH TOO MUCH MVP

    I really hope that Morro will be different !
    But I lost hope when I discovered there is no beta testing team.
    Does it mean that everything will again be decided by one MVP (the same or another one) ???

    Thursday, February 5, 2009 5:20 PM

All replies

  • Picsoe,

    No MVP can tell Microsoft how to do anything, we aren't employees of Microsoft and since we are simply users of the products just like you, we don't have any more direct control over how a product evolves than you do. The only thing we have that you don't is a bit more contact with the product groups and the recogniition that we've provided help in the Microsoft Communities, usually the forums or newgroups.

    I know you are pointing the finger at me, so I'll try to explain what really happened so you can gain some understanding, or at least others can since I highly doubt you really care about anything but your own preferences.

    1. If by Internal Network features, you mean the Printer sharing and/or Hub features, none of us were even aware that these would exist until they were already released in OneCare Beta 2.0 if I recall correctly. By this time, the features were already basically locked down and the confusion around these items was rampant. So in an attempt to help others understand why they were included I described why to some extent they were necessary to solve problems with both the OneCare firewall and the management of multiple clients with OneCare installed. I never said I had requested or even really liked or used these features myself, since I've only ever had one PC at each location with OneCare installed, so they were basically useless for me. In any case, any of these muti-PC features could be disabled or never selected, so they've never been an issue to anyone who didn't use them that I've seen.

    2. As for the Backup to Internal hard disk drives, yes I did state early and often that backing up to another internal drive is an extremely bad idea, which is well known to anyone knowledgable in the management of computer systems. However, I again had no hand in any decisions that were made relating to this, in fact the OneCare Development Team really held a much harder line than even I did relating to this possibility. In fact, it was me who asked in a public Chat held near the end of the OneCare beta (2.0 or 2.5, not certain which) if internal backup might ever be allowed and I was told no. It was also me who stated later in these forums that though internal backup was a bad idea, there should probably be a work-around made available for those who really wanted it. Since many who wanted this feature agreed, the OneCare Development decided to add the ability to backup to a share, which allowed the ability to backup to a share on an internal hard drive as a result.

    So before you go making accusations you should try to at least get your facts straight.

    And as for why OneCare will be coming to an end, the reasons are fairly obvious. It was far too complex a product from the beginning to provide the simple fool-proof security for the masses that Bill Gates and Microsoft had ariginally intended. The new product Morro sounds like it will be only the anti-malware (Anti-Virus, Anti-Spyware) portions, so this should actually reduce the overhead and simplify the operation greatly. I hope that unlike OneCare, Morro doesn't become overly complex for the non-technical user, since this is exactly the problem I warned of over three years ago during the beta before the original OneCare 1.0 was ever released.

    So I didn't cause any of these things to happen, I just tried to explain them to people with no understanding why the decisions had likely been made. Because I sound so 'In the Know' about these subjects, some of these same people become confused about my role in the decisions made about the product. That's not surprising, since even we MVPs for OneCare often heard little or nothing about such decisions before they were actually released in a beta, so what little information we had often made us appear to be involved in those decisions.

    OneCareBear
    Windows OneCare Forum Moderator
    Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:07 PM
    Moderator
  • Piscoe,
    I'm moving your thread to the General folder after this reply.

    OneCareBear has already provided a pretty good response, but I'll add that we can speculate as to why OneCare as a product is being retired, but we don't know the actual reason or reasons. I am quite sure that OneCareBear is correct in his assumptions, however.

    I will also note that you should go to http://mvp.support.microsoft.com to learn what a Microsoft MVP is. While we did have the ability to contact several of the OneCare team members directly, but we had no influence over the design of the product other than to identify the requests and problems coming from the community.

    -steve
    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare & Live Mesh Forum Moderator
    Friday, February 6, 2009 2:18 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi OneCareBear and Stephen,

    Thanks for these effusions.


    Amen and out !

    PS.

    I hold my heart for Morro
    • How many "non-MS-persons" are involved so far ?
    • Have you been involved by any chance ?
    I am just curious if I should keep up hope for a good AV application or if I should stick to my new Anti Virus, now that MS is not supporting OneCare in Windows 7 anymore  !!!   :-))
    Monday, February 9, 2009 10:53 AM
  • We've not heard anything about the current status of Morro development or testing.
    I'd go ahead and use whatever you like in the Win7 beta and see what transpires for Morro moving forward.
    -steve
    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare & Live Mesh Forum Moderator
    Monday, February 9, 2009 5:55 PM
    Moderator
  • Picsoe said:

    Hi OneCareBear and Stephen,

    Thanks for these effusions.


    Amen and out !

    PS.

    I hold my heart for Morro

    • How many "non-MS-persons" are involved so far ?
    • Have you been involved by any chance ?
    I am just curious if I should keep up hope for a good AV application or if I should stick to my new Anti Virus, now that MS is not supporting OneCare in Windows 7 anymore  !!!   :-))



    Picsoe,

    I agree with Steve that for the time being you should use something already available to provide protection.

    As for Morro, I'd expect it to simply be the same 'guts' that you've already seen with OneCare, since these internal engines and detections are nearly identical in all of the various Microsoft Anti-Malware products like Defender, ForeFront Client Security, and the MSRT. The only differences are the scope (Defender is Anti-Spyware only, MSRT is limited to the most common threats) and configuration controls.

    As with the Defender Public beta a couple years back, I'd expect Morro to include some simple basic controls with some adjustment as to how much notification user(s) of the PC will receive. Since personal preference for notifications varies, some prefer quiet operation and others like to be told about everything that occurs, there may be some level of control for this. OneCare is generally extremely quiet, but that has turned off some of the more technical users who prefer more information about what their protection is doing.

    Again this is just speculation as Steve already mentioned, but since the intentions and direction Microsoft has taken with such products is consistent, it's fairly clear from the Microsoft announcements and past history what we can expect to see. The only changes likely once Morro is released as a beta would be minor adjustments to the user interface.

    And as both Steve and I have stated repeatedly, we have nothing to do with internal development. Anything we say here is simply collected along with what others here including yourself have to say, with the preferences of everyone being weighed against the requirements of the product. The decisions with a security product, however, are really much different than those made with general user products such as MS Office, since a much broader range of technical skills must be supported and the complexity of controls reduced to avoid user confusion.

    OneCareBear
    Windows OneCare Forum Moderator
    Wednesday, February 11, 2009 4:24 AM
    Moderator
  • As a beta tester of One Care, I found this group of forums to be one of its most valuable features.  I was glad when the forums continued after the beta phase.  The MVPs in general were excellent, and Stephen Boots was exceptionally good.  This method of Customer Support has been faster and better than I've found on other security products, and on other MS products.

    I hope this mode of Customer Support continues with Morro.  If we haven't burned them all out yet, I hope the present MVPs come along for the ride.

    'Thuse
    Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:54 AM
  • Thanks, thuse. :-)
    -steve
    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare & Live Mesh Forum Moderator
    Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:44 PM
    Moderator