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  • Question

  • Fist, need longer timeout on webpage.  Tried to give you full sequence of events for update problem, but website timed out.  Second, I have 2 computers with thre same problem as everybody else, and a third that is trying to take the update.  There was an associated anomoly during the update that may be part of the problem.  I have screenshots for you, but cannot get them to attach to this post.  I have one cpu completely down with a black screen and no cpu activity, a second that is functioning, but is having problems, and a third that I had to remove from the net as it was trying to take the download from one care.  Please inform programmers that shutting down an AV service during live contact with the net is NOT GOOD.  All programs that update asked to be removed were non resident, not in startup, and not running at the time that the problems occurred, so there should have been no reason for conflict with onecare.  Black screen occurred after trying to restore to earlier time than update.  That machine is still on and in same blackout state as a test bed.  Please advise.  Standing by

     

    Saturday, February 2, 2008 11:13 PM

Answers

  • I'm sorry to read of the problems you've encountered. I can't imagine why you would be in a state with a black screen an unresponsive system due to the OneCare update.

    During the update, when major components of OneCare are updated, the services need to be shut down in order for the update to proceed. There are still system level components that cannot be updated until the PC is rebooted. When the update shuts down the services, the network is locked down, so no attacks can enter that way. However, if you were to ignore the reboot warning and browse the web and open emails, there is a risk of infection.

    Personally, I don't care for the way OneCare updates. Of the PCs that I have running OneCare, none encountered problems with the latest update, but one PC did encounter problems with the reboot. I needed to remove power and the battery to shut down the PC. Upon power up, all was well, though.

    If you wish to pursue a refund, please contact OneCare support -

    How to reach support (FAQ) - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2421771&SiteID=2

    -steve
    Monday, February 4, 2008 1:47 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Got tired of waiting.  I tried all system tests and found no problem with the system itself.  Tried restore from windows backup in recovery mode, but windows says that it can;t find a valid hard disk even though I have my portable 350GB hard drive attached to it that has at least 3 full backups of my machine.  all that is left is system recovery, so I am going to lose all work done last2 days, which is significant as I use the failed computer to telecommmute.  Thanks so very much to the live onecare team for letting out an update that still had bugs.  I am downloading Linux as we speak.  I have had several security suites in the last couple years trying to find one that would be the best, and be totally compatable with vista.  Microsoft does not seem to be compatable with its own products.  Where do I get my money back for Live onecare gold?????  Steve, I hope the team sorts this one out for the sake of all who are suffering loss of there computers due to Onecare update.

    Sunday, February 3, 2008 2:09 AM
  • I'm sorry to read of the problems you've encountered. I can't imagine why you would be in a state with a black screen an unresponsive system due to the OneCare update.

    During the update, when major components of OneCare are updated, the services need to be shut down in order for the update to proceed. There are still system level components that cannot be updated until the PC is rebooted. When the update shuts down the services, the network is locked down, so no attacks can enter that way. However, if you were to ignore the reboot warning and browse the web and open emails, there is a risk of infection.

    Personally, I don't care for the way OneCare updates. Of the PCs that I have running OneCare, none encountered problems with the latest update, but one PC did encounter problems with the reboot. I needed to remove power and the battery to shut down the PC. Upon power up, all was well, though.

    If you wish to pursue a refund, please contact OneCare support -

    How to reach support (FAQ) - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2421771&SiteID=2

    -steve
    Monday, February 4, 2008 1:47 PM
    Moderator
  • I'm answering backwards, but there are some points in your initial post that warrant a reply.

    I don't know what timeout you are referring to as there is none on the forums that I'm aware of. I remain logged in for significant periods of time and am able to walk away and return to complete a post.

    Attachments are not allowed in the forums. You can link to an external site where you host your pictures by either providing the URL to the pictures or by using HTML to embed the image tag, referencing the external location.

     

    What programs did Update ask to be removed?

     

    You mention that 2 PCs encountered problems and a problem during the update that was similar on both machines. Can you explain further?

     

    At the end of your post, you mention that the system with the black screen that is unresponsive got in that state following a System Restore. Why did you perform a System Restore?

     

    And the PC that is functioning, with problems, what are those problems?

    -steve

     

    Monday, February 4, 2008 1:53 PM
    Moderator
  • Good evening Stephen,  RE Timeout-  While trying to give a complete description of the sequence of events that occurred during my LOC update, the reply page shutdown, and I found myself back at the forum.  How this occurred, I can't explain, so I assumed there was a limit on response time to reply.  This maybe due to system instability due to the update???

      Thank you for The info on attachments. I do not have anywhere to post screen images, unless you want them to be emailed to a neutral address.  Besides, as I had to do a complete recovery, I no longer have the screen shots, but may be able to find the item in my other PC that is running, as it  has come up since update.

        Update asked for Adaware, and I believe Spybot to be removed.  While they were on the machine, they were not active in the start menu to autostart, I had the auto update features turned off, and had no scans running at the time that the update asked for their removal, so I do not understand why there was a conflict between the 2 programs.  I see from reading somre of the other posts that LOC also has a problem with McAfee site advisor, which is a valid tool for a user, provided that the user is not actively running 2 AV programs at the same time.

        RE  Black screen:The reason for the system restore is that after the LOC update, I followed the request to reboot.  After a very extended time (15+min)of waiting for the machine to shut down and reboot, and with no evident cpu activity, I shut the machine down manually.  Upon restart, I got the regular bios and system activity, and the Windows logo and password entry point. I entered my password, and sat at the welcome screen for 5 minutes.  Since this was much longer than my machine usually takes, I rebooted again, and got the same basic results of a hung app.  The third time I rebooted, I got to the welcome screen and left it for a while.  It was still hung when I came back.

      I then tried to restore to an earlier time, but was unable to.  I tried restoring to a windows update restore point, and  was un able to.  Next I did an F4 and F8, and chose last known good configuration.  This resulted in regular bios  and system startup activity outside of C:.  Then I got the Windows logo AND....... ablack screen.  HMMM  Try reboot.....I get start up activity, windows logo, and..... black screen.

      Now, as many others have already posted to the update forum, associated with the update is the fact that it shutdown all of LOC, evidently leaving me with no AV, no firewall, no antispyware, no protection while in live contact with the net.  Not good. 

      The associated anomoly during this period of NO protection, was that a certificate that purports to be from Hewlett Packard, the OEM appears on my screen, in front of the current screen, and says I must accept the certificate to accept further HP updates.  I said no, and unchecked the accept all certificates from this XXXXXXXXXX I don't remember the last word.  The I got another popup that said if you want to accept hit cancel, if not hit OK.  I tried to X out, but popup stayed.  I finally got it to clear by using  task manager to identify the processes from HP, and used proc Kill from sysinternals. 

      Later research shows that this was aan upload thru BackWeb, which I am sure you know is used by enterprises as a convienient way to upload to clients for updates, and is considered foistware by others.  The reason it is suspect isw that it  had a date of 2005 on the certificate and was of very poor quality on screen.

      It is also curious to me that the certificate showed up

    1 After the LOC update.

    2 During the time the machine was unprotected by any AV .

    3 Why would I get an HP certificate from 2005, as my machine was manufatured in 2007

     

    4thatthis happened in the same sequence of  update, loss of protection, appearance of certificate, on 2 different machines, one on Vista platform, one on an XP platform,  on different days.

    I can see that I am obviously not the only one across the country to experience severe problems with their machine after the latest download, as evidenced by the current content of the forum.  My original intent was to try and give you a clear sequence of events as they occurred during the download and subsequent issues with the machine.  As it would appear that the one care team let out an update with a bug, Iwould think some changes were in order before staging an update to the computing public, such as a broader test base of machines, a more comprehensive prestage testing, and more beta testing in a secure microsoft sandbox. 

    As someone who has tested alpha and beta software before, I understand there are risks with any update or software, but the onus is on the manufacturer of the software to test the product in all reasonable circumstances before releasing to the public. 

      My machine is pretty much an OEM setup from HP, so I don't think it is unreasonable to expect an update from a major manufacturer who has such a large portion of the software market to produce software that is thoughroly (mispelled) tested ffor the manufacturers that regularly bundle the software with their products, and to produce updates that are compatible with their own software.

      I understand that you and /or the onecare team are working to resolve this, and that you have personal or work machines that took the updates and are working fine.  As a Microsoft employee, I would expect no less.  However, in light of the number of people having problems, a rethink of policy within the one care team regarding prestage and staging of updates is indeed called for.  I hope the information on the sequence of events in this one case help you to find an equitable solution.

    Tuesday, February 5, 2008 2:16 AM
  •  sirrus8 wrote:

      I understand that you and /or the onecare team are working to resolve this, and that you have personal or work machines that took the updates and are working fine.  As a Microsoft employee, I would expect no less.  However, in light of the number of people having problems, a rethink of policy within the one care team regarding prestage and staging of updates is indeed called for.  I hope the information on the sequence of events in this one case help you to find an equitable solution.

    Thanks very much for the details of how the update affected your machines.

    The OneCare team is watching the update problems closely. In fact, this update was designed to address problems affecting the previous major update from 1.6 to 2.0.

    Note that I don't work for Microsoft, but am a volunteer moderator, but I do communicate with members of the OneCare team.

    There is a private beta with a pretty wide population of users. If you are interested in joining this, send me an email - sboots@mvps.org - identify your forum nickname, "OneCare beta" in the subject line, and a link to this thread in the message body. I can't promise you'll be added, but I will forward your email to the beta team.

    For others reading this, please do not email me asking for a spot on the beta - I'm pretty sure that an invite will be forthcoming in the near future as the beta testing process and base are evaluated.

    -steve

    Tuesday, February 5, 2008 7:51 PM
    Moderator