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  • Question

  • I am thinking about upgrading to Window 7 in October, but read Windows Live One Care must be uninstalled to use anytime update and advised it will not run on Win 7 .. Is this true, if so what happens to my subscription since this is ny hub PC for two other network systems?

    Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:45 AM

Answers

  • One Care will not be compatible with Windows 7 and must be uninstalled before upgrading. Your subscription will remain valid for the entire term and you can designate another computer as a hub if desired.
    Jim - MVP Windows Live - Forum Moderator - Live One Care - Live Mesh - Microsoft Security Essentials
    Sunday, August 16, 2009 1:07 PM
    Moderator
  • Walt,

    First you need to understand that Jim and I are not Microsoft employees, we're simply other users of Microsoft products like yourself that regularly help others in these forums and have been recognized by Microsoft for providing that community based support.

    Second, the last item on the main Windows Live OneCare page,"End of OneCare Sale - Learn More", has existed for several weeks now.  Though I agree it isn't displayed as prominantly as it might be, it is available on the main page.  Also, as Jim stated, the product will be fully supported through the full 1 year term for anyone still using the older OS.  It's really just the Windows 7 situation that causes any issue as you've already identified.

    http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/3/helpsupport/default.htm

    As for the possibility of acquiring a refund for the product, if you still wish to do this you simply need to contact OneCare Billing, assuming the product purchase was within the last 30 days which I believe is the official 'cooling off' period during which such an option is allowed.  I believe there is another post in this same forum covering how to contact Support if you can't easily find that information within OneCare itself.  No one here can provide you with direct access to any specific person within Microsoft, we are not bestowed that level of access.

    I also just found a 'Cancel OneCare' selection under the Customer Support menu item on the Help & Support page at the same link above.

    Rob
    Monday, August 17, 2009 6:57 AM
    Moderator

All replies

  • One Care will not be compatible with Windows 7 and must be uninstalled before upgrading. Your subscription will remain valid for the entire term and you can designate another computer as a hub if desired.
    Jim - MVP Windows Live - Forum Moderator - Live One Care - Live Mesh - Microsoft Security Essentials
    Sunday, August 16, 2009 1:07 PM
    Moderator
  • Jim, this answer doesn't even begin to address the true implications of the question stated, and I for one am concerned.  Concerned as much by the lack of interest you portray in providing a complete answer as by the lack of a solution to the inherent problem as presented.  It is the general manifestation of this disinterest within these forums that has led to the specific problem, details to be revealed below.

    Let me clarify: Live OneCare is a product designed to not only provide a central hub for managing security functions, OneCare IS the source of the security functions, as provided by Microsoft, at a price.  So what if Win 7 can't be the hub?  The real issue is, where is the security functionality? What did we spend our money on if there isn't upward compatibility?  (Damn, is that story ever getting old with you guys!) Is there a FREE built in set of components in Win 7 that provides ALL of the features of OneCare?  (Yes, I know, you are smiling here, champing at the bit to inform me of this solution set, but stay with me.)  If not, what solutions remain for us?  Unless there are solutions I haven't been made aware of, it doesn't seem that Microsoft has thought this through or here are even darker implications I will touch on in a moment. 

    I myself just purchased OneCare to manage the security requirements of the three computer group I use at home, a subscription which will expire in August of 2010.  I was happy, it did exactly as represented and the hub concept is well thought out and implemented.  Then I ran Windows 7 Upgrade Adviser on an older computer I wasn't sure would handle the upgrade to Win 7.  It passed, with a few minor issues to be addressed, except for one, and only one glaring software incompatibility - Live OneCare.  I ran the Adviser against my two newer computers for corroboration.  Yup, two machines that had previously passed with flying colors failed - OneCare.  

    ** The next four paragraphs were written before my discovery of 'Morro', so while from one viewpoint, the issues promoted are moot, the fact that the communication failures that led to the whole OneCare investment issue have yet to be addressed leaves the potential for other people, like myself, to stumble over this nasty crack in the upgrade path as mapped out by Microsoft. These four paragraphs describe the mental track potentially created as a result of this flaw. **

    So, should I decide to upgrade to Win 7, which from what I have been able to determine so far, will be a positive and desirable improvement on the current limitations of Vista, I will be left with yet one more product which will need replacement.  Sadly, one I am disheartened to add to the list, for the reasons stated herein. 

    I have to ask, is it poor or inadequate communication regarding a satisfactory and comprehensive replacement or upgrade of OneCare, or is it really only about the money with you guys, and not a top to bottom solution set upon which we can build a confident relationship? Isn't that what the New Microsoft is supposed to be about?  Building long-term solid and lasting relationships upon which we as clients can feel confident that our decisions to work within the solution set as provided by Microsoft won't be jeopardized by ill-conceived upgrade paths or complete lack of concern for the budgetary and time management issues created by dead end solutions sold as the latest and greatest?  After all, OneCare is a new component and part of the New Windows Live Family of software solutions.  Or should I dust off my copy of Orwell's "1984"?

    Am I completely missing the mark, or is it the design managers at Microsoft?  Or worse, is it the accounting group who has said, Let's Make Them Buy Something New?!  Make me feel better here Jim, 'cause I am not getting the warm fuzzies, and I am getting flashbacks from when MS was first gaining a stronghold on the general PC software marketplace and the avaricious theme so obviously present at that time.  Competition is one thing - intentionally providing, at a subscription price (IE. ongoing?!?!), dead end solution sets to your customer base is something else entirely.  Let me frame this issue another way: Where do you want our loyalties to lie as you go to argue your cases before the various courts, defending yourself against whatever flavor of the month lawsuit against you is being heard. 

    The issues are connected, and you know they are.  We really aren't mindless sheep and I for one am extremely insulted when I see that something such as the above addressed issue presents itself as evidence that Microsoft is, pun intended, trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

    ** Return to the newly informed present now. **

    I almost deleted the entirety of the above epistle as I researched this issue.  In truth Jim, I do not like to falsely accuse, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the unfairness to the accused as well as the foolish position I would put myself in.  So, when I saw that 'Morro' was on the horizon, I felt relieved, and as I said was about ready to remove the above rant, until I came across this statement from Microsoft

    "

    In order for us to focus on delivering this new security solution to millions of customers around the world, we have decided to phase out Windows Live OneCare and will discontinue retail sales of Windows Live OneCare subscription service beginning June 30, 2009. "


    So why wasn't I so informed of this when I went to purchase my subscription just 2 days ago, one and a half months after the supposed phaseout and discontinuation of sales.  There was no mention WHATSOEVER of this state of OneCare.  Why, oh why did I delete my active McAfee Security centers from two of my PC's to "upgrade" to an already discontinued product line.  You might say, well, I made that decision.  However, it was a misinformd decision due to a gross misrepresentation of the product's actual status in your product line.  I would not even have become aware of the new replacement option had I not been 'after the fact' informed by Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor of the incompatibility of OneCare.  So, hurray for Microsoft, there is a replacement for a dead end software product on the testing benches, one which I would have no doubt opted for, keeping my current security software subscriptions active with a renewal date of early 2010.

    Curiously, Jim, my initial argument still stands.  The complete answer to the original question should have definitely included a reference to 'Morro', leaving us exactly where we started, with one further issue now to be addressed.  By my accounting, Microsoft owes me $50 for the OneCare subscription I most definitely would not have paid for had I been informed of all of the facts, including and especially that little detail about the June 30, 2009 date for dissolution of the sales of OneCare subscriptions.

    So, Jim, if you would be so kind as to point me in the right direction to address this issue, I would consider the effort a gesture of goodwill.  Additionally would you email a preliminary note outlining the pertinent issues to the contact that you suggest I approach.  Oh, and that would be an actual person, not a generic customer service url, please.

    It may seem I am pressing the issue, but in point of fact, I am in forced retirement on a fixed monthly income stream.  I was previously Director of MIS for a boutique investment firm after years as a top rated Wall Street consultant until a heart attack and bypass surgery left me with a form of post traumatic stress disorder.  I do understand design planning, the difficulty of bringing anything to market within a specified time frame in a relatively stable format (ah, the mythical man-month.)  I am not without sympathy for the monumental task your company is presented with, especially maintaining in-house communications current between the varied departments.  I just hope you can see what a single mis-step has cost me.  That $50 was money rebudgeted.  From the information immediately available to me I was wisely investing in a solution that tied in with a larger concept and was bringing me forward to a newly designed concept theme for which Microsoft as a company expressed full commitment and support - at least in the retail sales division.  Learning that it was money not well spent is painful, both mentally as well as fiscally.  Any assistance towards correcting this mis-step would be greatly appreciated.

    Ball's in your court, Jim.

    Regards,

    WaltDTjr
    Monday, August 17, 2009 3:50 AM
  • Walt,

    First you need to understand that Jim and I are not Microsoft employees, we're simply other users of Microsoft products like yourself that regularly help others in these forums and have been recognized by Microsoft for providing that community based support.

    Second, the last item on the main Windows Live OneCare page,"End of OneCare Sale - Learn More", has existed for several weeks now.  Though I agree it isn't displayed as prominantly as it might be, it is available on the main page.  Also, as Jim stated, the product will be fully supported through the full 1 year term for anyone still using the older OS.  It's really just the Windows 7 situation that causes any issue as you've already identified.

    http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/3/helpsupport/default.htm

    As for the possibility of acquiring a refund for the product, if you still wish to do this you simply need to contact OneCare Billing, assuming the product purchase was within the last 30 days which I believe is the official 'cooling off' period during which such an option is allowed.  I believe there is another post in this same forum covering how to contact Support if you can't easily find that information within OneCare itself.  No one here can provide you with direct access to any specific person within Microsoft, we are not bestowed that level of access.

    I also just found a 'Cancel OneCare' selection under the Customer Support menu item on the Help & Support page at the same link above.

    Rob
    Monday, August 17, 2009 6:57 AM
    Moderator
  • Thanks for the response.  I understand your position as volunteers, you Rob and Jim, and as such I understand that as a volunteer you are tacitly a supporter of Microsoft.  I too support Microsoft, and have used and recommended a substantial portion of their product line, including when I worked as Director of MIS.  My personal issue and point of concern is not that there is or isn't a partially visible link to a notice regarding discontinuation of the product OneCare, but that Microsoft SPECIFICALLY states in the message quoted above that "we have decided to phase out Windows Live OneCare and will discontinue retail sales of Windows Live OneCare subscription service beginning June 30, 2009."  Discontinuation of all sales does not mean post an innocuous notice that the support will be ending at some time in the future; it specifically means that there will no longer be a charge for that service, if that service continues to be made available. IE. I expect a $50 refund AND continued access to the OneCare product until 'Morro' is ready for retail distribution.  Clear? 

    Secondly, and more of an issue of critique, as I also stated at the beginning of the original note above, a point to which you have yet to respond, the inherent question behind the lack of hub support by converting to Windows 7 was the additional loss of any and all security protection in the Win 7 box.  Perhaps you assumed that the poster had resolved that issue.  I, had I been in your position as a supplemental support responder, would definitely not have made such a broad and unsubstantiated assumption - since he was concerned about losing his hub, a problem easily corrected by a simple click of the appropriate box choice, it is not a stretch of inductive reasoning that he was uncertain as to how he was to handle the loss of the security functions supplied by OneCare on that system, a much more immediate and significant problem.  And, if you will carefully reread my previous note, you will see that I most clearly made that concern a specific issue.  In other words, stop rushing around trying to cover Microsoft's a$$ when your own is clearly on the line.  Obfuscation is fine for big corporations who could care less about the occasional needle ____ from a clear headed and astute observer; individuals however, do not have that luxury.   Who knows, maybe the original petitioner does not care whether you provide information into a) immediate alternative security packages available to bridge the gap until b) 'Morro' is off the beta bench and is available for testing in the more global arena which presumably would include the aforementioned petitioner.  Regardless of what may or may not be in the head of the problem solution seeker, the kind of response I recommend constitutes a complete and well considered response, sufficient not only to this petitioner, but to any and all individuals who chance upon this question with similar issues, despite the signoff by your 'superior' Stephen Boots.

    Now, go ahead, criticize, make me out to be the bad guy with something to prove.  But meanwhile, in your heart of hearts know that I am not only correct, but justified in revisiting the oversights.

    Yeah, my staff disliked working for me also, until I was gone and they suddenly were faced with the real decisions I had been making that had stayed above their pay grade.  Then it was truly amazing the shift in attitude when we subsequently had reason to meet.  Even the company owner, who had a personal beef with me simply because I was selected for the position by his junior partner, changed his tune when he discovered he had to hire three new people just to cover the gap of my loss to the company.  I don't consider what is just in front of me, I look around for what hasn't been said but is implied by a full interpretation of the facts in evidence.  It is not the tree that has fallen in your path that is the problem, but the cause of its descent that should be the launching point for the inquisitive mind.

    Unless you have something germane to add to this communication, I really don't need a response.  As the song says, "Just take a pebble and toss it to the sea, then watch the ripples as they [rush] to you and me." 

    WDTjr
    Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:53 AM
  • WDTjr,
    If you have an issue with your subscription and the terms of that subscription, please contact customer service:
     

    How to reach support (FAQ) - http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/onecareinstallandactivate/thread/30400b52-7f26-4ba0-bc18-17e305329d90

    As for the original question and response that you jumped in on, the original reply remains valid.
    1. A Circle of 3 computers running OneCare are part of a subscription.
    2. If the hub PC is upgraded to Windows 7, either of the other 2 computers can be designated as the hub for now, or neither, depending on the current configuration.
    3. If we advise that OneCare will not run on Windows 7 and needs to be removed, then it is assumed that another security solution would need to be sought for the Windows 7 machine.
    4. There are *many* discussions within these forums about the future of OneCare, transition plans as we understand them today, the speculation on availability of MSE (Morro) by the time Windows 7 is released to retail, and alternative solutions for those going to Windows 7. These discussions go back to January of this year.

    -steve


    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare, Live Mesh, & MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator
    Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:59 PM
    Moderator
  • I "jumped in"?  So much for open discourse in an open forum.  It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
    Friday, August 21, 2009 10:12 AM
  • Still, it is good that we have had this discussion.  Now that I have refamiliarized myself with the viewpoint consistently maintained within the closed community, the usual suspects must be trotted out, and as the blame game commences, an astute member of the bar will focus in on the weak link and devise and incorporate an effective and relevant issue of contention for the courts to surrender a verdict upon.  You have helped greatly in providing insight into the general policy procedures still in effect at the corporate level of Microsoft.  I appreciate your candor and am now preparing to initiate proceedings to remedy this issue. 

    Chow for now.

    WaltDTjr
    Friday, August 21, 2009 11:00 AM
  • I "jumped in"?  So much for open discourse in an open forum.  It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

    Yes, you jumped in. Jim provided a perfectly valid answer to the question. Admittedly, he could have provided much more detail, repeating what has been written here over and over by us in reply to other questions. You took him to task over the reply and demanded more details. You went on the state your expectations, as if we in the forums could fulfill them: "I expect a $50 refund AND continued access to the OneCare product until 'Morro' is ready for retail distribution.  Clear?" Personally, I think the demand is over the top, but that's me. You subscribed to a service for 1 year and the service will be fully supported for that year. I don't know of any claim that says that the software and service will be valid for any future upgrades to the operating system that you are using. The system requirements for OneCare don't list Windows 7.
    You are welcome to join in any discussion or ask for clarification, but your responses to this thread have been pretty aggressive and accusatory. Let's be clear - there are 3 active moderators in this forum. We are not paid, we choose to do this because we enjoy helping people. We do not work for Microsoft. We have no problem advising Microsoft that we believe that they made a mistake or that they have handled something badly. We have communicated our displeasure with the lack of details on transition plans multiple times, but that's besides the point. If you feel that you have been duped into purchasing OneCare, then, by all means, seek a refund.
    -steve


    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare, Live Mesh, & MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator
    Friday, August 21, 2009 11:32 AM
    Moderator
  • You could have let this go but you just couldn't, could you.  Of course not.  You are after all, The Expert, and God forbid that you lose any ground trying to learn where you have made a mistake when you can use the 'power of the microphone' and just bully your way through.  Well, I will readdress this one issue.  Over the top you say?  Here again is the quote, DIRECTLY from Microsoft, and not some intermediate news agency.

    "In order for us to focus on delivering this new security solution to millions of customers around the world, we have decided to phase out Windows Live OneCare and will discontinue retail sales of Windows Live OneCare subscription service beginning June 30, 2009."

    WILL DISCONTINUE RETAIL SALES does not mean, we'll sell it with a caveat hidden behind an obscure link.  It means that there will NO LONGER BE A CHARGE for a product which will NO LONGER HAS A FUTURE AS A SUPPORTED PRODUCT by Microsoft.

    Any one, and I do mean ANYONE, with a modicum of unbiased intelligence would have no difficulty parsing that interpretation out.  Since I can assume that you are a moderator because you are intelligent, it is left that you have a bias, a splinter in your eye preventing you from seeing and accepting a simple truth.

    My truth?  I am going to a lawyer friend of mine Monday to see if the fact that since there are probably thousands of individuals who might have their misplaced trust in Microsoft's sale of a product which they, like myself, were under the impression that it was part of the Microsoft Family of supported products since MS was charging us a subscription fee for its use, might receive benefit from having the damage resulting from that misplaced trust be partially restored through the facilities of a class action suit.  You see, when I read an unqualified statement by a corporation who, without sufficient warning to its clientelle, decides to act outside thhe boundaries of good faith in such a manner as to cause financial damage to the afore mentioned clients, I turn to that vehicle which the founding fathers of this great nation put into place to allow the small to take equal position against the large when contesting such wrongs, the courts. 

    You can now congratulate yourself.  Thanks to your bullheaded inability to attempt to help resolve the issue in a congeneal manner, you are directly responsible for its escalation, a point I will make certain is included in the suit petition. 

    As far as discussions reaching back to January regarding the future of OneCare on this forum, they are moot.  My discovery of this thread and all associated threads came as a result of my being informed by the Win7UpgradeAdvisor that OneCare was no longer supported, a warning I could not have received until AFTER OneCare had been installed.  It is NOT my responsibility to plow through thousands of threads and forums to discover if a product Microsoft is selling is being held under discussion in tech forums.  My responsibility ends when I receive an advertisement from Microsoft that the purchase of a product will not only solve my problem but will be supported.  You CANNOT have it both ways.  Microsoft cannot both advertise and sell a product as supported with one hand, while disclaiming any responsibility for a discontinued product on the other.  (Once again, for the slower ones in the group, let me return your attention to the above enquoted statement made by Microsoft.)

    Your arrogance is molded from the same clay as that of Microsoft's.  Keep trying to support an insupportable argument.   Please.

    Enjoy!

    Saturday, August 22, 2009 7:25 AM
  • Unsupportable argument?

    Windows Live OneCare subscriptions will be fully supported through the end of their term, which is one year.  They will continue to be supported on the current Windows operating systems which are listed within the Installation Requirements for the product as follows:

    "Microsoft Windows XP (Home Edition, Professional, Media Center Edition, or Tablet PC Edition) with Service Pack 2 (SP2) or later, or Windows Vista 32-bit and 64-bit (Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, or Ultimate) operating system (OneCare does not support the Windows XP Professional 64-bit operating system)"

    Windows 7 is an as yet unreleased product which has never been supported nor listed as supported by Windows Live OneCare.  In fact, the only mention of the two together by Microsoft has been to specifically state that it will never be supported.  The choice of switching to the Windows 7 operating system when it is released is totally up to the individual, but this doesn't in any way require Microsoft to provide support for it with any other pre-existing product.

    Microsoft offers the option of a refund by contacting OneCare Billing Support and requesting it within 30 days of purchase of the product.  Purchase at retail would be governed by the organization and local laws where the product was purchased, Microsoft's only responsibility is to provide the services as described on the supported systems listed for the term of the subscription.

    I see absolutely nothing here that provides the grounds for a lawsuit.

    Rob
    Saturday, August 22, 2009 7:32 PM
    Moderator
  • You could have let this go but you just couldn't, could you.  Of course not.  You are after all, The Expert, and God forbid that you lose any ground trying to learn where you have made a mistake when you can use the 'power of the microphone' and just bully your way through. 

    <snip>

    Your arrogance is molded from the same clay as that of Microsoft's.  Keep trying to support an insupportable argument.   Please.

    Enjoy!


    I'm sorry that you believe that I'm bullying and arrogant. I do take offense at *your* attitude, however. There is no argument except for the one that you are having. I'm not arguing. I provided you with the means to contact customer service if you felt that you were misled to purchase Windows Live OneCare based on a lack of information about future support. I can't do anything more than that. The rest of your argument doesn't merit any further response.

    -steve
    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare, Live Mesh, & MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator
    Saturday, August 22, 2009 10:14 PM
    Moderator
  • Then stop responding
    Saturday, August 22, 2009 10:30 PM