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How to discuss the culture in forums? RRS feed

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    I've been told to post my feedback here in the Suggestions and Feedback area.  But my threads are locked and new threads are deleted.  There seems no way to have a discussion about this.  I wrote to a moderator directly who told me to use "official channels" to reach him and other moderators.  So, then I wondered, if this isn't an official channel maybe their Microsoft mailbox is an official channel.  But then I was told I can't have the email addresses of the other moderators.

    And yet, new customers are offended and alienated daily by the culture that's grown in the Expression Web forums.  My attempts to discuss the damage being done by attacks on customers have been blocked. 

    There has been no discussion.  I'm simply told to shut up about it.

    I've even been told the moderators aren't aware of my questions.  But someone at Microsoft will eventually address the damage being done to customer loyalty while the customers are early in their adoption cycle. 

    I still hope it will be the moderators themselves, and so I'm not ready to give up on them yet.  How can we disucss the damage being done to Microsoft customer loyalty? 

     

    -WDS- Disk failures only happen to those who fail to backup.
    Monday, August 1, 2011 3:35 PM

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    thank you for letting this thread post.  I'll let the question above wait for an answer while I ask a second question. 

    If it's possible to protect moderators from being offended, how come it's ok to let customers be offended? 

    -WDS- Disk failures only happen to those who fail to backup.
    Monday, August 1, 2011 4:11 PM
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    While waiting for a discussion to begin on the two questions above, I'll ask a third question.

    These words mean something....
    -->  early in their adoption cycle  <--

    Do the moderators of the Expression Web forum understand the damage done to Microsoft when a customer is alienated early in their adoption cycle, particularly if the customer is a technical person who influences others, and the product we're talking about is a gateway product leading to other Microsoft products? 

    -WDS- Disk failures only happen to those who fail to backup.
    Monday, August 1, 2011 6:18 PM
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    While waiting for a discussion to begin on the three questions above, I have a fourth question... fifth, and sixth.

    I started a thread titled: "If the goal isn't to win customers, what's the goal?".  Later in that thread, I asked it again and asked Lori if she could answer it.  Her reply was "The question you asked was answered.  I have marked it answered so you can see it clearly."

    http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/feedback/thread/97bbcd37-1e8e-4abc-bdae-cc344be7dc26

    As you read the "Answer" in that thread, do you believe my question was answered?  Do you understand my point that my questions go unanswered?  If the goal isn't to win customers, what's the goal?

     

    -WDS- Disk failures only happen to those who fail to backup.
    • Edited by Rain Dance Monday, August 1, 2011 8:23 PM missing link
    Monday, August 1, 2011 8:08 PM
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    I'm still waiting for an answer. 

    How does it make sense to delete my messages and my threads while the abusers are free to offend new Microsoft customers?

    Will you make my messages available to upper management when they investigate what you've done?

    How does it make sense to moderate the one who asks that the thugs and abusers be moderated?

    .

    Moderators are good. I've used forums since the BBS days; before the internet, AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy, Genie... you name it. I've used it. Moderators bring civility. But in the Expression Web forums, the most uncivil are the moderators and their entourage of thugs. They abuse those who appeal for civility. I've seen countless uncivil forums, but the Expression Web forum is so uncivil, you'll find endless examples of alienated customers. The thugs cause Microsoft to lose money and I wonder why something isn't done about it. And they owe me an apology.

    Sunday, July 1, 2012 4:21 PM
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    Yes you threads are off-topic there but not off-topic here. If you are told to use this forum but keep posting off-topic threads like this to any Microsoft product forum I won't be surprised if your threads get marked as abusive or get deleted.

    Also if you advise the poster why you think the post is abusive in a reply, then he or she may change the behavior in a more timely fashion. Currently there is no way for a user to even notice the thread being reported as abusive, short of reviewing each and every thread. Of course this does not apply to apparent spam robots.

    If lots of abuse reports are not handled in time, then it is time to add more moderators and you can request it here, but ultimately the product team gets to decide who has the expertise to get in - that is, if the product team is still around. Moderators are mostly volunteers (even if their daytime job is to work for Microsoft) doing moderation out of their spare time. It is not surprising for a moderator to miss a particular thread. There are many Microsoft forums closed for lack of moderators.

    The following is signature, not part of post
    Please mark the post answered your question as the answer, and mark other helpful posts as helpful, so they will appear differently to other users who are visiting your thread for the same problem.
    Visual C++ MVP



    Monday, July 2, 2012 1:14 PM
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    Sheng, I appreciate your reply.  I'm hoping someone will eventually address the problem with the Moderators in the Expression Web forum.  They clearly don't understand their responsibility.

    The reason this is so important to Microsoft is because FrontPage and Expression Web have floundered against competitors.  Part of the reason is because so many new users become alienated early in their adoption cycle.

    Expression Web is important because it is a gateway product to so many of Microsoft's other development tools.  So when you lose a customer early in their adoption cycle, it's a major loss.

    I watched this happen with Borland.  Their forum moderators were a major part of the alienation of customers who were making a sincere effort to become Borland customers. 

    Of course Microsoft won't implode the way Borland did, but there's no reason to allow one of Microsoft's product lines to implode when the solution is so simple...  Fix the moderators.

    .

    I've used forums since the old BBS days. Moderators are good. Moderators bring civility. But in the Expression Web forums, the most uncivil are the moderators and their entourage of thugs. They alienate customers and then abuse those who speak out against abuse.

    Tuesday, July 3, 2012 4:40 PM
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    I googled "Expression Web Forum".  Here is what google believes is the 12th most important webpage:

    http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/feedback/thread/66567879-afc0-4c32-8b2d-4e9a4605a4ce

    If you google just about anything on Expression Web you'll find alienated customers and people who complain about the moderators.

    It's only a matter of time before shareholders and journalists begin asking questions.

    .

    I've used forums since the old BBS days. Moderators are good. Moderators bring civility. But in the Expression Web forums, the most uncivil are the moderators and their entourage of thugs. They alienate customers and then abuse those who speak out against abuse.

    Tuesday, July 3, 2012 5:00 PM
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    I binged "Expression Web Forum Moderator".  Bing believes this thread is the number one most important web page.

    http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-HK/feedback/thread/66567879-afc0-4c32-8b2d-4e9a4605a4ce

    I would expect Microsoft Shareholders to become unhappy and eventually express their outrage.

    .

     

    I've used forums since the old BBS days. Moderators are good. Moderators bring civility. But in the Expression Web forums, the most uncivil are the moderators and their entourage of thugs. They alienate customers and then abuse those who speak out against abuse.

    Tuesday, July 3, 2012 5:13 PM